The reason you don’t see the problem with the ESL is because (by your own admission) you don’t know what you are talking about
Football is a competitive sport with a long history, lots of ‘smaller teams’ have been very successful in the past.
All purpose football thread 20-21 season II
- Thread starter Bob McC
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Football is a competitive sport with a long history, lots of ‘smaller teams’ have been very successful in the past.
Weekender
pfm Member
"the best teams" would not play against the best teams: Arsenal are currently 9th placed in the league but would be guaranteed a place in the Super League. See also Liverpool and Tottenham - both outside qualification places.
https://www.premierleague.com/tables
Conversely other teams such as West Ham currently in a great league position would be denied a spot.
It stinks.
To high heaven.
https://www.premierleague.com/tables
Conversely other teams such as West Ham currently in a great league position would be denied a spot.
It stinks.
To high heaven.
Weekender
pfm Member
Absolutely agree - which is why we need more regulation.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
The reason you don’t see the problem with the ESL is because (by your own admission) you don’t know what you are talking about
Football is a competitive sport with a long history, lots of ‘smaller teams’ have been very successful in the past.
Indeed, that's why I asked why the fans would object. I don't know if it's a fair comparison but I know darts had a breakaway championship thing created years ago that's become quite popular, the PDC, I think it's called. I'm not up on darts so I've no idea whether that's relevant. I just know it happened.
Anyway, back to the question of why fans would object. I can sort of see why fans of smaller teams would object if revenue is going to be lost by not playing bigger teams: more revenue means a better chance of success on the pitch. Perhaps the question I should be asking is why fans of the teams that had signed up for the ESL objected?
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
So were the ESL teams going to withdraw from their normal domestic and continental competitions and just play each other in a new ESL format? If so, given the quality of players at each ESL team, I'm sure the games would be very competitive. Were ESL teams going to play in the ESL in addition to all other competitions?
(I'm in agreement about darts, it's not my cup of tea either.)
Weekender
pfm Member
The ESL teams wanted to remain in their domestic leagues. The Administrators of the Premier League threatened sanctions - initially the disbarring of ESL players from International competition.
You either completely misunderstand the nature of competition in football (and sport) or are trolling. The pyramid system is based on merit*. Teams currently quality for European competition from their League position. The ESL would get rid if this. ESL could field weakened teams in the Premier League, thus completely undermining it.
* there is a whole other argument about finances.
You either completely misunderstand the nature of competition in football (and sport) or are trolling. The pyramid system is based on merit*. Teams currently quality for European competition from their League position. The ESL would get rid if this. ESL could field weakened teams in the Premier League, thus completely undermining it.
* there is a whole other argument about finances.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I'm quite certain Windhoek is not trolling.
My understanding, as a fellow non footie fan, is that the ESL would replace the Champions League, but would be based on membership, not merit. So the same teams would play each other year in, year out, in a sort of closed shop. Crucially, this would shut down any route for the other Premiership teams, not in the ESL, to play in something like the Champions League (where a lot of the big money and glory is). At least now those teams have a chance of competing in the CL, even if it's not a very realistic one.
Have I got that right? It does seem to me that skimming off the big boys would have made the remaining competition in the Premier League more even, and therefore more rewarding for the rest of the teams. And I wonder (assuming I'm correct above) whether if the CL had continued regardless, there would be as much of an uproar, as it would then make it more likely that other teams would actually get a look in at those elite competitions like the CL.
My understanding, as a fellow non footie fan, is that the ESL would replace the Champions League, but would be based on membership, not merit. So the same teams would play each other year in, year out, in a sort of closed shop. Crucially, this would shut down any route for the other Premiership teams, not in the ESL, to play in something like the Champions League (where a lot of the big money and glory is). At least now those teams have a chance of competing in the CL, even if it's not a very realistic one.
Have I got that right? It does seem to me that skimming off the big boys would have made the remaining competition in the Premier League more even, and therefore more rewarding for the rest of the teams. And I wonder (assuming I'm correct above) whether if the CL had continued regardless, there would be as much of an uproar, as it would then make it more likely that other teams would actually get a look in at those elite competitions like the CL.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Why single out one club? Football has always been about money to the extent that the best players go to the richest club. Prior to the Premier League it was Man U, since then it has been half a dozen clubs, of which Chelsea were but the first.
That’s not to say that I agree with the ESL, or that the ugly greed and corruption is a thing other than a drain on the beautiful game, just that there are wider problems than Chelsea who at are at least owned by a true son of socialism
Anh
Naim ghetto blaster
A bit like winning the lotto sure, gotta be in it to erm ... win it?
While winning the CL is in many ways on-par with winning the World Cup, it is a massively flawed competition, each club probably gets 2-3 guaranteed televised games where as ESL you get 38 games (based on 20 clubs). One dodgy ref decision or dive can enough to knock you out of the competition.
With exception of Porto which was 240 something years ago, every club that has won the CL has spent the most in players, coaches and infrastructure to stay in the competition long enough to make it financially worthwhile let alone win it.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
That's this last year. If they do away with fans in the stadium, there would be no refunds, or the other expenses. It was just musing, anyway.
Weekender
pfm Member
No it would not be more rewarding. It would be pointless without the "big 6". I want to see my team get stuffed every season at Old Trafford and Anfield.*
The CL would not continue without the ESL teams or would be similary devalued as a "big 6"-less Premier League.
*Yes I know - I'm kinky.
Weekender
pfm Member
{Spits tea out}
Anh
Naim ghetto blaster
Sorry, I could have swapped Chelsea out for Man City. Before their respective takeovers, they were mid table clubs under a self-sustaining model. You cannot celebrate winning trophies thanks to huge investments from the top and then later decry earning from a more financially rewarding competition as unsporting. It's double standards.
If the ESL were to go ahead despite 'the fans' whining about it, they would still end up voluntarily subscribing to see their club battle it out, that's the nature of the football fan.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Safe(ish) with 3 straight wins, including two away. Fabulous! What a feat to stay in the Championship and finish mid-table (very hopefully) and all on the 2nd lowest budget in the division, groundsharing at St Andrews, and with all the injuries. Stoke 2 Coventry 3. Great game - took the lead three times.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
Yep, I'm not trolling. As someone with pretty much no emotional interest in the sport (I always hope Scotland do well of course but that's a forlorn hope as it is and beyond that, I have very little emotional interest), I'm just trying to understand the (vociferous) objection to the ESL - including and especially from fans of ESL teams - and I think I'm getting there:
- apparently, it would not necessarily be the best teams versus the best teams due to the closed-off, invitational nature of membership; the inference being that there are better teams out there but which are deliberately excluded or simply not invited to join
- fans of ESL teams still want to see their team play against 'weaker' teams in existing competitions
- fans from non-ESL teams want to see their team play against ESL teams; with the presumed risk being that had the ESL gone ahead then the ESL and the teams involved might have become completely cut-off from all other teams, competitions and governing bodies to the extent that a non-ESL team might never again play an ESL team unless invited to do so
- creation of the ESL may have led to the demise or at least, significant devaluing of existing competitions without participation from ESL teams
As I said, I could see why major stakeholders who stood to lose huge revenue streams would want to object in the strongest possible terms, but it was from the fan perspective that wasn't as easy to grasp. Other than what I've just written, are there any other reasons why fans (of ESL and non-ESL teams) would object to the ESL?
- apparently, it would not necessarily be the best teams versus the best teams due to the closed-off, invitational nature of membership; the inference being that there are better teams out there but which are deliberately excluded or simply not invited to join
- fans of ESL teams still want to see their team play against 'weaker' teams in existing competitions
- fans from non-ESL teams want to see their team play against ESL teams; with the presumed risk being that had the ESL gone ahead then the ESL and the teams involved might have become completely cut-off from all other teams, competitions and governing bodies to the extent that a non-ESL team might never again play an ESL team unless invited to do so
- creation of the ESL may have led to the demise or at least, significant devaluing of existing competitions without participation from ESL teams
As I said, I could see why major stakeholders who stood to lose huge revenue streams would want to object in the strongest possible terms, but it was from the fan perspective that wasn't as easy to grasp. Other than what I've just written, are there any other reasons why fans (of ESL and non-ESL teams) would object to the ESL?