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Recommend me a decent full suspension X-Country bike ?

-alan-

pfm Member
Gentlemen of the PFM cycling posse..I would humbly request your assistance and counsel please.

I think the time has finally come to park up the (by now ancient) Cube Ltd 26" , and look for something a little more capable. The Cube has genuinely been faultless in over a decade's worth of use and abuse. A couple of sets of tyres, countless tubes, one broken chain replaced, and that's it - everything else was flawless. What finally prompted this was a run out on local trails last weekend, and the realisation that a decade-old hard-tail with limited fork travel - really - is not on a par with the latest generation of high-tech suspension-kitted stuff.

It's pretty much like this, albeit with slightly higher spec RockShock Reba forks, and 3 x 9 Shimano Deore XT:

PJlKDyal.png


spec here:
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/cube/ltd-2012

I want to go 29 inch / full suspension, with preferably at least the same spec or better brakes and shifters. I dont want to go full downhill spec. as I need all the help I can get in terms of less weight. I'm about as far from a happy climber as you can get :)

I'd like decent suspension that can handle the 'rock-tables' as we call them in the middle of the downhill runs in Ballinastoe where we go. On the Cube, when I go over them I have to fight to hold onto the grips, my vision blurs, and the feet almost come off the pedals (I don't do clips off-road).

Looking around in the car park afterwards, and googling a bit since, I've taken a closer look at the Orbea range (a mate has one). Their entry level FSusp Occam model in particular comes in at around €2.5k. Not cheap, but having got 10 years out of the last bike, not ridiculous either.

ix0m41rl.png


https://www.orbea.com/ie-en/bicycles/mountain/occam/cat/occam-h30

I'd go that amount, (or less if I could) but don't really want to go much more. Any thoughts on the Orbea above - or pointers towards similar or better for around the same budget ?
 
Calibre Sentry if you can find one...?

I'm starting to look, and that's what I would get if they were readily available (and SWMBO agreed). I have a Mk1 Bossnut and it has proven itself well! The Sentry is not particularly light though.
There's a 'Pro' version but that's £3K..
Sure you want 29" rather than 27.5" - 27.5 would probably be lighter?
 
The received wisdom locally seems to be that the 27.5 is a bit passé robs - an interim solution until the world decided if 29" kit was any good. Certainly a good look round the car-park at the bottom of the trails at the weekend would seem to confirm this is definitely the case. Will have a look at the Calibre for sure - thanks.
 
Gentlemen of the PFM cycling posse..I would humbly request your assistance and counsel please.

I think the time has finally come to park up the (by now ancient) Cube Ltd 26" , and look for something a little more capable. The Cube has genuinely been faultless in over a decade's worth of use and abuse. A couple of sets of tyres, countless tubes, one broken chain replaced, and that's it - everything else was flawless. What finally prompted this was a run out on local trails last weekend, and the realisation that a decade-old hard-tail with limited fork travel - really - is not on a par with the latest generation of high-tech suspension-kitted stuff.

It's pretty much like this, albeit with slightly higher spec RockShock Reba forks, and 3 x 9 Shimano Deore XT:

PJlKDyal.png


spec here:
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/cube/ltd-2012

I want to go 29 inch / full suspension, with preferably at least the same spec or better brakes and shifters. I dont want to go full downhill spec. as I need all the help I can get in terms of less weight. I'm about as far from a happy climber as you can get :)

I'd like decent suspension that can handle the 'rock-tables' as we call them in the middle of the downhill runs in Ballinastoe where we go. On the Cube, when I go over them I have to fight to hold onto the grips, my vision blurs, and the feet almost come off the pedals (I don't do clips off-road).

Looking around in the car park afterwards, and googling a bit since, I've taken a closer look at the Orbea range (a mate has one). Their entry level FSusp Occam model in particular comes in at around €2.5k. Not cheap, but having got 10 years out of the last bike, not ridiculous either.

ix0m41rl.png


https://www.orbea.com/ie-en/bicycles/mountain/occam/cat/occam-h30

I'd go that amount, (or less if I could) but don't really want to go much more. Any thoughts on the Orbea above - or pointers towards similar or better for around the same budget ?
That Orbea looks great. The money has gone into shocks and frame rather than shifters. Stuff like derailleurs are replaceable with better when you wear them out. Brakes on it are OK without being stellar. If you like riding that you won't be sorry you own it.
 
Just did some quick checking there:

- the Cube is 12.6 kg (out of the garage and onto the bathroom scales, as it came off the hills at the weekend)
- the Calibre Sentry (albeit in a large frame) is a reported 16.2kg (jz...)
- the Orbea, on the website rather worryingly has some bollocks about not posting the weight as 'it is only one aspect of bike design, and we'd prefer you to come visit a dealer, throw a leg over the frame and look at the whole package' - so I'm guessing a fat lardy brute :)

I hate climbing, with a vengeance. I'm guessing despite what the manufacturers would have you believe, the effects of the extra 4kg plus isn't going to be balanced out by the improved traction - and you're undoubtedly going to suffer more on the way up ?
 
Perhaps that’s why the modern bikes have cassettes the size of dinner plates? (And the cassette weighs a kilo )
 
Your big problem is going to be finding stock. Even mechs etc are proving almost impossible to source now, so maybe enjoy what you have for now. Test rides aren’t likely, so maybe next year?
 
Maybe an e-bike? ;)

In seriousness, I was much impressed by a guy who trailed me down a run in Meribel last summer (pretty fast...for me at least) on an e-bike, then took off up the hill whilst I caught the lift...
I didn't think they'd handle too well downhill, but that one seemed to fly, don't know what it was, other than full sus.
 
^ Much and all as I despise climbing, e-bikes are just..cheating. (Lifts are almost as bad .. ) You have to earn your gravity assist and pay your dues :)

Your big problem is going to be finding stock. Even mechs etc are proving almost impossible to source now, so maybe enjoy what you have for now. Test rides aren’t likely, so maybe next year?

Yup - July and August delivery earliest for some of the new bikes I have looked at. Pretty bad :(
 
Perhaps that’s why the modern bikes have cassettes the size of dinner plates? (And the cassette weighs a kilo )

And they're very expensive as well as big, I've stuck with a 2X front chainset for this reason
 
Your big problem is going to be finding stock. Even mechs etc are proving almost impossible to source now, so maybe enjoy what you have for now. Test rides aren’t likely, so maybe next year?

Correct, lots of components / spares in very short supply

12 speed chains are virtually non existent, not that it concerns me
 
Just did some quick checking there:

- the Cube is 12.6 kg (out of the garage and onto the bathroom scales, as it came off the hills at the weekend)
- the Calibre Sentry (albeit in a large frame) is a reported 16.2kg (jz...)
- the Orbea, on the website rather worryingly has some bollocks about not posting the weight as 'it is only one aspect of bike design, and we'd prefer you to come visit a dealer, throw a leg over the frame and look at the whole package' - so I'm guessing a fat lardy brute :)

I hate climbing, with a vengeance. I'm guessing despite what the manufacturers would have you believe, the effects of the extra 4kg plus isn't going to be balanced out by the improved traction - and you're undoubtedly going to suffer more on the way up ?
Price you pay for a bigger bike, bigger rims, bigger tyres. My old Kona 26" leaves my Orange 27.5 mounted younger biking mate for dead on any climb, on any technical descent he strolls down stuff that has me off every time.
 
My biggest problem is climbing. My cycling buddy is a few years younger but spends a lot of time cycling at altitude in Ethiopia - and is a seriously fit guy. He out climbs me on his 29" full suspension - all day every day. I can outrun him in the downhills because I've more seat time on off-road motorbikes, and am slightly less cautious.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way then - a larger / full suspension bike is going to exacerbate the climbing deficit surely ?
 
Any change of bike will not make a significant difference to your climbing, sorry. The answer is cheaper but less appealing.
 
Any change of bike will not make a significant difference to your climbing, sorry. The answer is cheaper but less appealing.
Got it in one. That Cube will climb as well as anything and better than the bigger bikes. Climbing is about the motor. Sounds like your Cube has lots of life left in it too, it's not as if the forks are leaking, the brakes spongy and half the bearings needing replacement.
 
Price you pay for a bigger bike, bigger rims, bigger tyres. My old Kona 26" leaves my Orange 27.5 mounted younger biking mate for dead on any climb, on any technical descent he strolls down stuff that has me off every time.

My Specialized Epic was put together to help me out at trail centres which usually have a lot of climbing at the start (and when I built it I was even less fit than I am now), but where it's fun to have full suspension for the downhill stuff. At just over 10kg it's still fairly light for a full-suspension bike, although non unusually so given carbon frames etc. are more common these days. Still very expensive to buy a full-suss bike that light though. Heavier bikes with more travel are going to be quicker downhill, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are having more fun than me. It also gives me an excuse for being slow on the scarier stuff!

A lot of the trail centre climbing is pretty tedious anyway so sticking the bike in a low gear you can spin and just wandering your way slowly up is the best answer on a heavy bike.
 
Perhaps that’s why the modern bikes have cassettes the size of dinner plates? (And the cassette weighs a kilo )

That's usually because they're running x1 systems where you need cassettes that go up to 50t to get a useful range of gearing. The cassette does weigh more but you get weight savings from the lack of front mech, rings and shifter of course. The huge cassette does look off though - this is my ancient S-Works Enduro that's running a 1x system with a 34 (I think) on the front and a 11-51 on the back. In practice it works really well for that type of bike:

170854940.hSuDPxYL.swe201.jpg
 
My Specialized Epic was put together to help me out at trail centres which usually have a lot of climbing at the start (and when I built it I was even less fit than I am now), but where it's fun to have full suspension for the downhill stuff. At just over 10kg it's still fairly light for a full-suspension bike, although non unusually so given carbon frames etc. are more common these days. Still very expensive to buy a full-suss bike that light though. Heavier bikes with more travel are going to be quicker downhill, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are having more fun than me. It also gives me an excuse for being slow on the scarier stuff!

A lot of the trail centre climbing is pretty tedious anyway so sticking the bike in a low gear you can spin and just wandering your way slowly up is the best answer on a heavy bike.
an Epic is a lovely machine but we're looking at some serious expense there. As regards the climbs at trail centres, as you say they are tedious but they're just a means of getting you to the top of the next run. Anything with a granny gear will do. A modern trail bike will always be *easier* to get down a slippery, technical descent, but if you have the skills a 26" hard tail may be more rewarding, as you say. It's a choice.
 
My Specialized Epic was put together to help me out at trail centres which usually have a lot of climbing at the start (and when I built it I was even less fit than I am now), but where it's fun to have full suspension for the downhill stuff...

...A lot of the trail centre climbing is pretty tedious anyway so sticking the bike in a low gear you can spin and just wandering your way slowly up is the best answer on a heavy bike.

That's exactly the type of riding I do - public trail centres with a truckload of climbs up fire-roads at the start mostly, followed by fast single trail downhills, generally dry with little mud.

As regards the climbs at trail centres, as you say they are tedious but they're just a means of getting you to the top of the next run. Anything with a granny gear will do. A modern trail bike will always be *easier* to get down a slippery, technical descent, but if you have the skills a 26" hard tail may be more rewarding, as you say. It's a choice.

It is a tough call. I can get to the top without running out of gears, but trying to keep up with the other chap on the climbs has me running close to VO max for extended periods of time. Can't honestly say I enjoy those bits. As everybody points out tho - a €2.5k full-suspension bike ain't really going to sort that for me.
 
Got it in one. That Cube will climb as well as anything and better than the bigger bikes. Climbing is about the motor. Sounds like your Cube has lots of life left in it too, it's not as if the forks are leaking, the brakes spongy and half the bearings needing replacement.
My best bike didn’t help me last night as I was shelled out the back by a young lad on a steel frame with a full sized pump attached to the top tube.
 


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