darrenyeats
pfm Member
Not sure! It makes the screen totally black, the backlight should last longer - and it will use less power (welcome when using battery power).
How good is the Squeezebox Touch ?
- Thread starter beammeup
- Start date
There are several places online where they take you through it step by step. It takes an hour or maybe two total. And it's a one off. After that it basically works perfectly on it's own.
robs
should know how this works by no
Robn
pfm Member
I'm so glad this thread caught my attention as the information kindly offered by ithers has led me to updating my SBT with EDO, and trying a couple of external DACs one of which has to my ears brought a significant improvement to how music sounds through my system. I had thought it already sounded great from the SBT and on following a suggestion found that this itself improved when powered from a phone charger powerpack.
The DAC I have found myself liking is an old design, the Micromega MyDAC. It has an expressive, lively, dynamic presentation that creates a sense of voices and instruments having solidity and particular position. That it is a little brighter than the SB's internal DAC suited me too and maybe this accounts for its perceived lively character. I bought it used for a little under £100.
Earlier I had tried a Topping E30 which I bought new. It had a remarkable set of features and specs but sounded unconvincing regardless of which filter setting I used. I found I preferred the internal DAC in the SBT to it. Voices and instruments lacked the 'solid' expressive quality that I like and it seemed less dynamic than the other two options. I really wanted to like it and though I felt it began to sound a bit better after a few hours I couldn't warm to it over the course of a week. All IMHO of course.
I'm sure other people and their systems would hear these options differently but my point is that DACs do sound different and though I have no appetite for extensive research I seem to have stumbled upon one that is helping me enjoy using my SBT even more. I'm sure there must be many other DACs out there that would do likewise to a greater or lesser degree.
The DAC I have found myself liking is an old design, the Micromega MyDAC. It has an expressive, lively, dynamic presentation that creates a sense of voices and instruments having solidity and particular position. That it is a little brighter than the SB's internal DAC suited me too and maybe this accounts for its perceived lively character. I bought it used for a little under £100.
Earlier I had tried a Topping E30 which I bought new. It had a remarkable set of features and specs but sounded unconvincing regardless of which filter setting I used. I found I preferred the internal DAC in the SBT to it. Voices and instruments lacked the 'solid' expressive quality that I like and it seemed less dynamic than the other two options. I really wanted to like it and though I felt it began to sound a bit better after a few hours I couldn't warm to it over the course of a week. All IMHO of course.
I'm sure other people and their systems would hear these options differently but my point is that DACs do sound different and though I have no appetite for extensive research I seem to have stumbled upon one that is helping me enjoy using my SBT even more. I'm sure there must be many other DACs out there that would do likewise to a greater or lesser degree.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
It’s interesting that a Dac so revered by measurement enthusiasts ASR should sound so unconvincing to some listeners.
Zombie
pfm Member
Did you A-B compare the DACs and level match them? (For that you need two synced SBTs.)
I tried the MyDAC many years ago when it was the latest hype since slied bread but sold it on. Besides it had a loud hi freq buzz.
I had a Qutest inserted after my SBT and thought, wow, nice. Then set up an A-B comparision and there was no difference whatsoever, except with the "red" filter.
My own expectation bias that the Qutest would be da sh*t played a trick on my ears. Saved me 1000 euros, though.
I tried the MyDAC many years ago when it was the latest hype since slied bread but sold it on. Besides it had a loud hi freq buzz.
I had a Qutest inserted after my SBT and thought, wow, nice. Then set up an A-B comparision and there was no difference whatsoever, except with the "red" filter.
My own expectation bias that the Qutest would be da sh*t played a trick on my ears. Saved me 1000 euros, though.
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/03/howto-building-and-installing-raspberry.html
full instructions with pictures.
Robn
pfm Member
No I don't have sufficient interest or the resources to A-B test nowadays. I'm more interested in how I hear the music over extended periods of listening.
I likely did have expectataion bias about both the E30 and the MyDAC yet one I found disappointing the other rewarding. I was expecting great things from the E30 after reading and viewing many positive reviews and whereas with the MyDAC I was merely hopeful.
I compared a stock Touch (OK, with the EDO) to a SoTM streamer with a Quad USB DAC (total cost about 1000 euros). Couldn't hear any difference.
I asked another person for a blind comparision and he couldn't hear any difference either, maybe sometimes the USB DAC setup was slightly better, but not sure.
Now the LMS has exactly what I hoped Roon had but didn't have, integration of Tidal as if the favourites were my own albums on the NAS.
Brilliant, can even use them seamlessly in random play with all my ripped content. Can also use the genre Tidal to play randomly from only the favourites.
There's a person from Logitech working on LMS to keep it up to date. The Material skin also makes the old inteface more modern. It's all improving bit by bit.
Can't see the Touch go, maybe I will get a new DAC some day...or a Transporter, so don't count the Touch out
I compared a stock Touch (OK, with the EDO) to a SoTM streamer with a Quad USB DAC (total cost about 1000 euros). Couldn't hear any difference.
I asked another person for a blind comparision and he couldn't hear any difference either, maybe sometimes the USB DAC setup was slightly better, but not sure.
Now the LMS has exactly what I hoped Roon had but didn't have, integration of Tidal as if the favourites were my own albums on the NAS.
Brilliant, can even use them seamlessly in random play with all my ripped content. Can also use the genre Tidal to play randomly from only the favourites.
There's a person from Logitech working on LMS to keep it up to date. The Material skin also makes the old inteface more modern. It's all improving bit by bit.
Can't see the Touch go, maybe I will get a new DAC some day...or a Transporter, so don't count the Touch out
I use the Touch now with RME adi-2 DAC via USB! and it sounds very good to me.
Glad I always kept the Touch even though I have now a decent Lumin streamer.
(Maybe a beter powersupply might give a little more inprovement?)
I like the touchscreen of the Touch and use the Iping app.And when it's off I still have a nice Clock.
Amazing little thing!
Glad I always kept the Touch even though I have now a decent Lumin streamer.
(Maybe a beter powersupply might give a little more inprovement?)
I like the touchscreen of the Touch and use the Iping app.And when it's off I still have a nice Clock.
Amazing little thing!
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
I have three SqueezeBox Touches in my house. Not only do I like the interface, they also work quite well to stream from my LMS. Since they're just doing transport duties, always fed into a DAC, I haven't been too concerned about sound quality. Bits are just bits, right?
I had an SBT in my office (on my main system), but it was hiding in the corner, and not being used for its display or touchability. It's the only original SB model that can handle higher resolution files, which is why it was there.
I decided I wanted to use that unit elsewhere in the house, so to take its place I got an Allo USBridge Signature, with their DigiOne Signature hat and Shanti dual linear power supply. I loaded up piCorePlayer and sync'ed it up with the Touch, both going into my Benchmark DAC2. This made it easy to switch back and forth, while listening to the same material.
I was quite surprised to hear a very notable improvement in sound. The Allo combo sounded less edgy and more fluid, with a more rounded natural performance across the frequency spectrum. Very smooth and comfortable! I was really quite shocked, and now I have to admit that bits are not just bits.
I should note that I was using the SBT's original power supply. Perhaps if I had used a higher quality SMPS or even linear supply, it would do its transport duties better. If I can find another supply kicking around, I'll make a point to do that experiment.
I had an SBT in my office (on my main system), but it was hiding in the corner, and not being used for its display or touchability. It's the only original SB model that can handle higher resolution files, which is why it was there.
I decided I wanted to use that unit elsewhere in the house, so to take its place I got an Allo USBridge Signature, with their DigiOne Signature hat and Shanti dual linear power supply. I loaded up piCorePlayer and sync'ed it up with the Touch, both going into my Benchmark DAC2. This made it easy to switch back and forth, while listening to the same material.
I was quite surprised to hear a very notable improvement in sound. The Allo combo sounded less edgy and more fluid, with a more rounded natural performance across the frequency spectrum. Very smooth and comfortable! I was really quite shocked, and now I have to admit that bits are not just bits.
I should note that I was using the SBT's original power supply. Perhaps if I had used a higher quality SMPS or even linear supply, it would do its transport duties better. If I can find another supply kicking around, I'll make a point to do that experiment.
slavedata
pfm Member
If you apply the Enhanced Digital Output mod to a SBT and feed it to a DAC it will perform really well and can handle both PCM and DSD files. If you google there is a list of DACs that will connect via USB to higher resolution but almost all DACs will connect via Optical or Coax up to 96K.
So don't rush to a new device the SBT can still hold it's own.
Supported DACs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UnnpylzUvFW3oi0ip5ghpuWFfDVcufKCn8k54uhqYKQ/edit#gid=0
So don't rush to a new device the SBT can still hold it's own.
Supported DACs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UnnpylzUvFW3oi0ip5ghpuWFfDVcufKCn8k54uhqYKQ/edit#gid=0
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The SBT is "bit-perfect" when its volume is fixed at 100%, so as a transport it is as good as it gets IMO (using EDO with the USB output). The built-in DAC isn't up with modern equivalent, and, clearly, adjusting the volume on it when in "digital transport mode" will result in some signal deterioration, but other than that I see little reason to move to something else.
mickhick1
pfm Member
I used an SBT in EDO mode until earlier this year when I replaced it in my main system with a Sonore micro rendu. This is a slight improvement sound quality wise, but it definitely isn't as stable IMO, needing much more frequent reboots, power off/on cycles etc.
The SBT is now doing sterling service in my office system, currently using the on board DAC.
It's a great bit of kit and way ahead of it's time.
The SBT is now doing sterling service in my office system, currently using the on board DAC.
It's a great bit of kit and way ahead of it's time.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
The moral of the SBT story is essentially that you don't need a very powerful processor to be an LMS client (the idea of the SBT being a mini-server was a dud) . Am I right in thinking that squeezelite is essentially the SBT operating system? if so it lives on in RPis around the world.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I think the mini server was a ‘let’s add it’ addition and they new it wasn’t really up to snuff when launched.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
I was told the SBT/SqueezePlay volume control is digitally lossless at 40 (out of 100) or above, with 16 bit recordings only though. Thanks to a mapping from a notional volume curve to nearest binary-friendly multiplication factors.
Sorry I deleted my earlier post when I realised most of it was repetition (I mean I repeat myself all the time, but try to spread it over different threads!)
Sorry I deleted my earlier post when I realised most of it was repetition (I mean I repeat myself all the time, but try to spread it over different threads!)
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Man in a van
pfm Member
Explained in the Wiki
Thanks to Adrian
https://forums.slimdevices.com/show...ux-(alsa-only)&p=723623&viewfull=1#post723623
ronnie