Labour response to the Budget - a prediction
- Thread starter ex brickie
- Start date
ex brickie
pfm Member
in one sense it doesn’t matter what I think for others but philosophically (and if it were practicable) I would start with:
Higher corporation tax on businesses of a certain size (I don’t have the expertise to know what size but I mean even relatively small SMEs if they’ve benefited from furlough)
Higher tax on higher earners - but not to stupid levels that stop investors being here
Definitely find a way to tax on profits of on line providers and big tech (FB, Amazon etc) - but I fear it would find its way down to consumers
A further public sector pay freeze where their jobs have been protected throughout (although the 1% for NHS does feel insulting despite them having higher increases than other public sector before now)
Some sort of curb on public sector pemsions that are rocketing out of control
I’m amongst that lot I would be contributing more which I’d be fine with
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Freezing public sector pay (not forgetting the past decade of pay freezes) just stymies the economy. It's the same mistake as austerity - actually it is just further austerity.
ex brickie
pfm Member
I agree the 'Tory mate' point but it doesn't make sense to see it as 'either/or'. Public sector workers along with their high employer pension contributions have been very much protected compared to many others. If we all have to take a bit of the strain then I don't see why teachers, civil servants, emergency workers and others don't do their bit through a wage freeze. Then go for higher earners all round (and that does mean doctors etc) on tax
Wage freezes only stymie the economy if they stop UK spending. How about taxing imports more then and encouraging a change in spending habits?
Wage freezes only stymie the economy if they stop UK spending. How about taxing imports more then and encouraging a change in spending habits?
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Austerity was responsibe for the UK failing to emerge from the banking crash in a way that didn't happen in e.g. France and Germany. It's only natural that people rein in their spending when they have less income. Don't forget that most bills are tied to CPI or RPI or maybe 5% so a freeze is very much a cut...
Seanm
pfm Member
This isn’t much different from what the Conservatives are actually doing, I.e. more austerity. Why worry about Labour? Conservatives have you covered.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
They have already done their bit; carried on working, and carried on making tax and NI contributions. That's before you take into account that those in the emergency services kept people alive and safe under terrible circumstances and despite of significant risk to themselves and will continue to do so, without a break, when it's 'back to normal'.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Not sure I understand. I was talking specifically about Key Workers who have been applauded and spoken of in terms of gratitude for working under incredible stress throughout the Covid crisis and then, when it comes to pay, been kicked in the teeth. Yes other sector have been hit too, but teachers, for example, have have their workload doubled, had to learn how to deliver teaching in new ways while at the same time still delivering traditional lessons, have kept going the extra mile for 12 months and are now being punished with a real term pay decrease.
To get into comparisons with other workers I’d playing into the hands of the Tories, it is in fact repeating Sunak’s line for him.
If we can’t respect our keyworkers, our public services will decline. This government has an agenda to force the decline of public services, if we do this governments bidding on public services we will be complicit in that decline.
Will MP’s be voting to have their pay frozen?
ex brickie
pfm Member
Because I'm open to other ideas. However to bury your head and say that teachers and nurses are all more important than others is pretty disrespectful too. That said, it would feel like a kick in the teeth to nurses and they have my sympathy over the 1% proposed..
It seems that your alternative to 'austerity' is spend spend spend to get the billions back in the coffers. My philosophy is tax the richer and the big companies getting away with tax avoidance, don't tax the lower paid any more, and curb the pay on those who have had the most secure pay and pensions. As I've said I would take that hit on a pay freeze. There has to be tax and spend - not just spend.
@ks.234 are you a teacher by any chance? I have a secondary school teacher in my close family and they don't describe 'double the work'. As for learning new ways of working, well, well, well - who'd have thought it. ....
I'm not suggesting they don't work hard but the implication that teachers shouldn't have to change working practices is.................. frankly out of order
Seanm
pfm Member
The country needs to be rebuilt: I'm suggesting we invest, which will stimulate the economy, and depending on where the investment goes also redistribute the wealth more fairly.Because I'm open to other ideas. However to bury your head and say that teachers and nurses are all more important than others is pretty disrespectful too. That said, it would feel like a kick in the teeth to nurses and they have my sympathy over the 1% proposed..
It seems that your alternative to 'austerity' is spend spend spend to get the billions back in the coffers. My philosophy is tax the richer and the big companies getting away with tax avoidance, don't tax the lower paid any more, and curb the pay on those who have had the most secure pay and pensions. As I've said I would take that hit on a pay freeze. There has to be tax and spend - not just spend.
@ks.234 are you a teacher by any chance? I have a secondary school teacher in my close family and they don't describe 'double the work'. As for learning new ways of working, well, well, well - who'd have thought it. ....
I'm not suggesting they don't work hard but the implication that teachers shouldn't have to change working practices is.................. frankly out of order
I'm all for taxing the wealthy but in general better not to do it now, during a recovery, when you need people to spend. However a hike in corporation tax, depending on how it's done and as I understand it, which is not well, would not hurt and would allay anxieties about government spending. Even better would be a wealth tax: some people have made out like bandits during the pandemic.
Paul L
coffee lounge for me
Hi Russel, because my understanding is that Blair and Brown enabled it with deregulation so the private corporates could then misbehave. Akin to taking a bunch of children into the sweet shop, giving them the keys and telling them not to be greedy.
If this isn’t correct I’m happy to be corrected and I’ve clocked the posts that say Osborne wasn’t really going to do anything different. Swines the lot of them!
I think it is a scandal how little nurses get paid, the 1% pay rise is getting all the attention currently but we should never be in this position. At the very least nurses should be paid as well as teachers. Friend of my wife, just about to turn 50 & is earning £32k per year for working shifts. Nursing is now a graduate job & has been for a while.
An old colleague of mine analyses data for a big HR concern.
They are acutely aware that an oversupply of labour means that wage rates can be suppressed. Wage levels do fall, particularly in the private sector.
Some jobs in the print industry saw levels halving in not more than a decade.
Local retail may never ever recover from this pandemic. The drive to online shopping seems relentless.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
How does your close family teacher describe their work?Because I'm open to other ideas. However to bury your head and say that teachers and nurses are all more important than others is pretty disrespectful too. That said, it would feel like a kick in the teeth to nurses and they have my sympathy over the 1% proposed..
It seems that your alternative to 'austerity' is spend spend spend to get the billions back in the coffers. My philosophy is tax the richer and the big companies getting away with tax avoidance, don't tax the lower paid any more, and curb the pay on those who have had the most secure pay and pensions. As I've said I would take that hit on a pay freeze. There has to be tax and spend - not just spend.
@ks.234 are you a teacher by any chance? I have a secondary school teacher in my close family and they don't describe 'double the work'. As for learning new ways of working, well, well, well - who'd have thought it. ....
I'm not suggesting they don't work hard but the implication that teachers shouldn't have to change working practices is.................. frankly out of order
Correct & people don’t join the nursing profession for the money. Online shopping has made 10 years of gains in the last year but over 70% of retail spend is done far to face. I don’t think you can overlook the leisure aspect of shopping & retail will adapt. I think online will fall back a little but even if it loses half of its gains...
Printing is a really interesting case, the job has become de-skilled to a certain degree.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Are you suggesting that it's therefore OK to deny a pay rise?
I suggest they also didn't join the nursing profession to have to work a whole year like they're in a war zone. Perhaps not awarding a pay rise may make them less keen to stick around to dig us out of the ***t in the next pandemic.
If you see my earlier post I stated that Nurses are massively underpaid, I am happy for them to get a fair pay award & this should have been in place long before Covid.
The medical profession has had a very tough year as have many other people.
I don’t think the war zone analogy is particularly helpful.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
You might want to ask a nurse who worked A&E and ask them if it's a fair comparison.