TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I don’t think it was to invite him to their Zumba class
Scottish Politics
- Thread starter droodzilla
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wulbert
pfm Member
I don't understand why this poster (Brian) thinks that Scottish voters voting what what they think will produce the best outcome for them, their families and their country is somehow wrong. "Nasty, narrow-minded Scots, voting in their own self interest. How dare they!" seems to the be his attitude.
In the spirit of aiding understanding however; Scotland has repeatedly, over several decades, voted overwhelmingly Labour in G.E.s In only a tiny minority of those years has our vote made any difference to the outcome of a UK General Election. My experience (like so many others in Scotland) has been that my vote doesn't matter within the UK and makes no difference to who governs us. This "democratic deficit" within the UK is one factor that makes Scottish independence seem worth pursuing.
If Labour have become less appealing to Scots that indicates a fault with Labour, not with voters. They really offer us nothing worth voting for. They are not even a party of social justice any more. Sorry Brian, but it ain't my job to vote for the party that you want to win. Life doesn't work that way.
As much as I loath the author of this article, I'll post it below because it directly addresses your question above. Do you really seek understanding of Scottish politics, or are you simple here to insult?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/vote-labour-get-tory/#more-75551
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
droodzilla
pfm Member
Your arithmetic is fine but the official death toll in Scotland is 7300. So the FT is right and you are wrong.
Actually, a figure of 9800+ is mentioned for Scotland here:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/stati...hs-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland
But this is the total where COVID is mentioned on the death certificate. This is not the definition used across the UK to facilitate comparison, which is essentially deaths within 28 days of a positive COVID test. I am certain the FT tracker compares like with like. I am not certain you do but, unless you provide sources for your statements (you never do) it's impossible to judge.
Can't comment on Glasgow vs London (which, in any case is a deflection from your main point) but, again, feel free to share your source ("apparently" doesn't cut it).
JimmyB
pfm Member
Too late, I told her that 'Brian says you're a racist because you're a nationalist'. She looked confused until I told her that you were from Northumberland at which point she sighed and said 'Is it something in the water there?'
To be fair to her, some of her adopted relations are in Alnwick and their use of words like 'piccaninny' in front of her (not about her) is all she has to reference against.
wulbert
pfm Member
Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive?
I was referring to your characterisation of any person supporting Scottish independence as a "Nationalist" (and nothing else) and then your stating that all nationalists are the same; flag draping, just like UKIP, turning their back on Labour:
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“Wasn’t it Labour you turned your back on when you draped the Scottish flag out of your window in 2014 and joined the cause?”
Re; UKIP candidate: “…he’s just another nationalist not a lot different to any other nationalist, after all.”
“Assuming the ‘we’ is a rallying cry for the resident nationalists, why should I give a damn what such braindead types think of me? I’m a normal bloke, Ken, whereas nationalists are a bit dodgy, to say the least.”
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Sixty five countries have gained independence from the United Kingdom (link below).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...e_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
Are you seriously saying that all the people in all those countries, who wished for independence, are just "nationalists" in your view? In the same camp as BNP?, The National Socialists in Germany in the 1930's?, Farage's UKIP?, Q Anon?, Jean Marie Le-Penn of France's National Front?, EDL? etc etc.
You don't see this as insulting?
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Great post ^^^^
ff1d1l
pfm Member
NorthumBRIAN water...spooky!
SteveG
pfm Member
I've temporarily removed the usual suspects from my ignore list to see what was being said on this thread but from the stench of it so far I suspect it won't stay that way for long.
It is interesting (and worrying) that some posters appear to get their entire world view from the Daily Mail though.
It is interesting (and worrying) that some posters appear to get their entire world view from the Daily Mail though.
Konteebos
Surfing on the lake of fire
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
OK, using the figures for deaths at 28 days of positive it would be along the lines of the following, again, back of an envelope using govt published population figures;
England 193 per 100,000
Scotland 135 per 100,000
London 169 per 100,000
Glasgow 176 per 100,000
The London/Glasgow comparison is not a deflection at all, but an attempt to even the field a little, as Scotland has a more dispersed population than England, with fewer urban concentrations. The English figure is truly appalling, and places the country at the top of the European scale, between Slovenia and Belgium. However, Scotland does not fare at all well at 135/100,000 I'm afraid, slotting in at just below Spain and Bulgaria. This might be compared with the Irish Republic, a similar country which has a very slightly smaller population and suffered less than 85 deaths per 100,000. My point, that the Scottish government has hardly covered itself with glory over CV-19, stands. There was a point last July at which Scotland's care homes fielded 47% of CV related deaths, whilst the figure for England was 30%. The point about all this is that Sturgeon projects this as though it is some kind of victory. It isn't.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
No, I don’t see it as insulting at all. In what way is it insulting? Some of the comments you refer to are in response to the hypocrisy of some SNP supporters, apparently unable to see their wish to separate Scotland from the UK to get away from the influence of Westminster is no different to those in the UK who voted for brexit because they wish to separate the UK from the influence of Brussels. There is no difference at all, but apparently, the second is racist...
I see a lot of disparaging remarks made on this forum from a small number of members towards ‘northern racists’ ( meaning English northern racists ). You don’t see this as insulting? There are no complaints about that relentless drone for nearly 5 years now. I suggest you apply the same standards across the board.
I don’t like nationalism, any nationalism. I see it as a source of problems. All of those nationalist organisations you highlight will, and without exception, believe their nationalism is a wonderful thing. We can do without them all.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Oh but it is. All through the epedemic Scotland was making pragmatic decisions which were copied by england with a killing delay, followed by a U turn.
I've lost count how many times this happened.
If you're going to stand there and say not only that Scotland buggered it up, but england did better, when the reality is englands figures are not even more disastrous because the johnson repeatedly u turned to follow the first ministers lead then you really have your head up your ar*e. Enjoy the view. Tory as far as you can see.
JimmyB
pfm Member
I think that was highly optimistic thing to do and no doubt you fully regret it!
Wish the Grey Horse was available.....
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Can you reference where Nicola Sturgeon ‘projects this a victory’, can you do the same for her ‘gloating’? You do a lot of projecting, much of it dressed up in interesting rhetoric. Her approach to Covid has been ultra cautious, no publicity opportunity films of her touring labs and injection centres, no unnecessary travel to these venues for party political purposes. She hasn’t had a holiday since this all began, she hasn’t visited her elderly parents. Contrast with Johnson and Hancock’s behaviour, the grandiose performance claims, the constant visits to Covid centres with the No.10 film unit in tow.
As I said the Scottish public sees all this, they will pass judgement at the ballot box in a few weeks.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Congratulations on a killing post. The problem is that it premise rests on my having said something that I didn't say.
My point again, the Scottish government's record on CV is appalling. The fact that it is less so than England's is immaterial to that original fact.
There's an awful lot of strutting and crowing about how well Nicola did in comparison to Johnson, not least right here on this forum thread, with you in the big chair.
This is simply being used as a handy stick to beat the Union with. It's nonsense of course. One day Johnson will be gone, and by that time the Union may well be gone too, though I'm not holding my breath. Scotland's record on Covid deaths will still be awful, and in the direct context of this debate, it's relativity to England's record will remain as having been usefully politicised by the SNP and its supporters.
Anyway, what's the plan?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Johnson has been a disaster in this crisis - you only have to examine his record in office. The failure to return from an oligarch funded holiday in the Caribbean, his absence from a string of COBRA meetings at the start. His contradictory messages about the pandemic- herd immunity, it’s handled like flu, that he would keep shaking hands and his claim he had shook hands in a hospital with Covid patients- the outbreak centred on Downing St infecting him, his health minister and the CMO.
The testing targets unmet and exaggerated, the vast £billions given unchecked to suppliers with no track record.
You see this, the public sees it. They see Sturgeon and it’s so obvious. She’s an existential threat to the Tories in Scotland and beyond and they are attacking her for it but it keeps blowing up in their face.
Good luck for the future.
The testing targets unmet and exaggerated, the vast £billions given unchecked to suppliers with no track record.
You see this, the public sees it. They see Sturgeon and it’s so obvious. She’s an existential threat to the Tories in Scotland and beyond and they are attacking her for it but it keeps blowing up in their face.
Good luck for the future.
SteveG
pfm Member
I miss the Balerno Inn badly!
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