I run a Luxman 590AXII even when ambient temperatures are up to, and exceeding 35C - of course the air-conditioning is on in the listening room any time it gets hot. Just uses a bit more power to cool the room. Prior to the Luxman I was running 8 x EL34's which produced much more heat.
Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?
- Thread starter Paulq2
- Start date
I run a Luxman 590AXII even when ambient temperatures are up to, and exceeding 35C - of course the air-conditioning is on in the listening room any time it gets hot. Just uses a bit more power to cool the room. Prior to the Luxman I was running 8 x EL34's which produced much more heat.
According to this snippitt from the web re the E600
The amplifier features instrumentation amplifier and MCS+ ((Multiple Circuit Summing) topology for truly balanced signal transmission. The output stage
sports the Toshiba J618 + K3497 MOS-FETs in triple parallel configuration operating in pure Class A.
But hey, I don't want to get into any long "heated" rangle about figures, so I accept what you say.
Mac
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
The E-600 is rated for 30WPC class A, not 60WPC - into 8 ohms.
I'm no expert, but I understand the ball-park efficiency figure for old school class A amplification is around 25%. That means for a class A amp rated for 30WPC, it should consume around 240W of power just idling. That's what my Pioneer M-22 is rated for, and that's its consumption figure. But it's a 40+ year old design.
I see the Accuphase E-650 is rated for 30WPC class A too, but consumes just 168W idling. This is closer to 35% efficiency, which may be attributed to its more modern design. I think if class-A means each transistor is on the whole time (rather than half-cycles like class-B), then the maximum efficiency that can be had is 50%. So 35% is still plausibly pure class-A.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
That depends on whether you had enough class A watts to begin with for the pair of loudspeakers you are trying to drive. Based on your last sentence, it seems not. I've found that 30W is sufficient for a pair of 90dB/w Yamaha NS-1000M (in my room), but not for a pair of 84dB/w E-IX mini-monitors. The E-IX sounds much better driven by a Dynavector HX-1.2mk2 with 180-ish class AB watts, but the Yamaha sounds better with 30 class A watts.
Chris81
pfm Member
But its maximum measured output is 60 watts @ 8 Ohm and the E 650 has 68 watts maximum measured output @ 8 Ohm (idle 215 VA).
Therefore it isn't pure class A.
https://pia-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/hifi_test_E-650_Accuphase_LP_03-2019.pdf
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I think you are confusing rated output with maximum output. The E-600/E-650 is class A up to 30WPC, but will go into class AB beyond that. You will find that most, if not all, class A amps behave in exactly this manner - which is another reason why they can sound more powerful that their rated output suggests.
Chris81
pfm Member
No I'm not confusing anything. "Pure" class A has no AB part, therefore the E 600 / E 650 is a Class AB amp with a higher class A part.
If an amplifier hasn't maximum output in class A it isn't a class A amplifier per definition. Every class AB amp has a class A part they differ in the point when they switch into class B but that is exactly what class AB is about.
"Pure" class A are for example some Sugden amps, first watt (NelsonPass), some (SET) valve amps. The Luxman AX 590 AXII isn't a pure class A amp too (see #781 ).
BTW: "Pure" class A is BS because if it isn't pure = 100% class A it is class AB.
If an amplifier hasn't maximum output in class A it isn't a class A amplifier per definition. Every class AB amp has a class A part they differ in the point when they switch into class B but that is exactly what class AB is about.
"Pure" class A are for example some Sugden amps, first watt (NelsonPass), some (SET) valve amps. The Luxman AX 590 AXII isn't a pure class A amp too (see #781 ).
BTW: "Pure" class A is BS because if it isn't pure = 100% class A it is class AB.
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James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
You seem hung up about purity. Why does it matter if the last few watts produced under class AB operation if the rated power is delivered in class A? Would you rather have a 30W "pure" class A amp that clips at 30.1W or one that has a bit of headroom so it doesn't clip straightaway? The fact of the matter is that both "pure" and "impure" class A amps rated for 30W will be operating in full class A under 30W.
Let me counter your Sugden and Pass examples with the original Krell KSA-50. Most people recognise the KSA-50 as a proper class A amplifier. It is rated for 50WPC into 8R, and progressively doubling into halving impedances. Yet, it can produce up to 70WPC into 8R and 150W into 4R according to Stereophile. Other than you, does anyone care that the last 20W is deliver in class AB when that is barely 1dB of extra headroom?
Let me counter your Sugden and Pass examples with the original Krell KSA-50. Most people recognise the KSA-50 as a proper class A amplifier. It is rated for 50WPC into 8R, and progressively doubling into halving impedances. Yet, it can produce up to 70WPC into 8R and 150W into 4R according to Stereophile. Other than you, does anyone care that the last 20W is deliver in class AB when that is barely 1dB of extra headroom?
Chris81
pfm Member
I don't get hung up. It is basic hifi knowledge stuff that only full class A is class A, everything else is class AB as the "AB" explains.
They fact of the matter is that the one is a class A amp and the other is not.
If you take an amplifier with 10 watt class A and 250 watt full output in class B the difference you can also say that you use the class A part most of the time because the B comes in place only in the very dynamic jumps and everything else is heat waste. Why use more than 10 watt class A?
Again, class A amplifier are operating only in full class A.
They fact of the matter is that the one is a class A amp and the other is not.
If you take an amplifier with 10 watt class A and 250 watt full output in class B the difference you can also say that you use the class A part most of the time because the B comes in place only in the very dynamic jumps and everything else is heat waste. Why use more than 10 watt class A?
Again, class A amplifier are operating only in full class A.
JTC
PFM Villager...
Sorry to piggyback on this thread, but does anyone know if it’s possible to replace the cast-iron feet on a modern Luxman amp? I know, I could check but that would involve disconnecting it and (somehow) turning it upside down. I’m curious to try different feet since due to the empty cupboard under the amp, the tiny amount of transformer noise it has is amplified significantly*. Sorbothane feet cure this but due to the amps weight I need big ones and they look a bit cheap. So thinking something a little more upmarket and maybe better suited to the amp’s 30kg weight. And stealthy so SWMBO won’t know
* this isn’t the amp’s fault. I can place my wristwatch on the same unit and hear its mechanism whirring away (faintly) so this unit is a pretty impressive acoustic amplifier!!
* this isn’t the amp’s fault. I can place my wristwatch on the same unit and hear its mechanism whirring away (faintly) so this unit is a pretty impressive acoustic amplifier!!
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Isoplat or similar platform? Isoacoustics have a new one out.Sorry to piggyback on this thread, but does anyone know if it’s possible to replace the cast-iron feet on a modern Luxman amp? I know, I could check but that would involve disconnecting it and (somehow) turning it upside down. I’m curious to try different feet since due to the empty cupboard under the amp, the tiny amount of transformer noise it has is amplified significantly*. Sorbothane feet cure this but due to the amps weight I need big ones and they look a bit cheap. So thinking something a little more upmarket and maybe better suited to the amp’s 30kg weight. And stealthy so SWMBO won’t know
* this isn’t the amp’s fault. I can place my wristwatch on the same unit and hear its mechanism whirring away (faintly) so this unit is a pretty impressive acoustic amplifier!!
Cereal Killer
432
Take the back off the unit below or cut some large holes in it. Then fill it up with wife’s spare cushions and a few books, of use it to store anything that doesn’t resonate
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Paul, what the latest line up in your system?
hermit
Aye, right.
Hugh, my system is finally settled after a year of ups and downs. I've still got the Lockwoods but now they're being driven by a Luxman LX-380 integrated. Also, my Sony TTS-8000 is back home after a major fettle. I'm still using the SME V-12, Phasemation PP-500 and Aurorasound Vida.
elevensheep
Active Member
I’m actually tossing up getting the Accuphase E480 or the Luxman L-509X
Anyone had a chance to compare them side by side?
Anyone had a chance to compare them side by side?
shrink
pfm Member
Ive had both accuphase and luxman (and Mcintosh) over the years. As with all of the solid state designs, not a huge amount separates them. Good class AB implemented well sounds like like other class AB implemented well. Very minor differences in the flavour of the sound but super subtle.
my old accuphase E550 was proper battleship stuff, fully class A but with power supply capacity to keep doubling down into 2 ohms, and happy enough driving 1 ohm if it had to. Smooth, refined, clean, open and engaging for sure, it was a huge leap over the class D amps I’d been playing with at the time.
lately I’ve had a luxman L-505 and in spite of being class AB, it sounds more similar than it does different. Super even handed, very neutral and in general a perfect amplifier. By that I mean it amplifies, perfectly, it’s job of making small signals bigger is done with what feels like zero influence of its own.
it didn’t grab me in the first few seconds like Some cyrus / naim / Densen stuff can, but you soon realise that’s because it doesn’t give you anything extra, or take anything away.
both of these big amps performed admirably and I’d have either again.
One caveat, the accuphase did have a board failure which I had to pay to fix myself. The luxman has had no technical issues.
my old accuphase E550 was proper battleship stuff, fully class A but with power supply capacity to keep doubling down into 2 ohms, and happy enough driving 1 ohm if it had to. Smooth, refined, clean, open and engaging for sure, it was a huge leap over the class D amps I’d been playing with at the time.
lately I’ve had a luxman L-505 and in spite of being class AB, it sounds more similar than it does different. Super even handed, very neutral and in general a perfect amplifier. By that I mean it amplifies, perfectly, it’s job of making small signals bigger is done with what feels like zero influence of its own.
it didn’t grab me in the first few seconds like Some cyrus / naim / Densen stuff can, but you soon realise that’s because it doesn’t give you anything extra, or take anything away.
both of these big amps performed admirably and I’d have either again.
One caveat, the accuphase did have a board failure which I had to pay to fix myself. The luxman has had no technical issues.