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Phil Spector dead

He shot an actress in the head, he produced some good music. The killing takes precedence in my view.

Not sure it is an issue of precedence or one issue being more important than the other. A criminal can still be exceptionally talented and, in my view, is entitled to be remembered for their musical talent too

In a similar way I recognise Michael Jackson’s immense musical talent too - whilst not forgiving any abhorrent behaviours
 
In a similar way I recognise Michael Jackson’s immense musical talent too - whilst not forgiving any abhorrent behaviours

Yes, I agree with that, but tbh, I'd have difficulty putting on a Michael Jackson record these days.
 
He was still a brilliant musician / producer. Artists don't have to be moral figures... do you all like Egon Schiele's work, or Caravaggio's (also a murderer) or Wagner's?
 
I have always been a huge fan of Spectors' 'Wall of Sound' period. Be My Baby, Baby I Love You, Then He Kissed Me, Zip A Dee Do Dah,Da Doo Ron Ron, Do I Love You, I Can Hear Music and dozens of other songs represent a true peak in pop music production.. I think it would be a huge mistake to diss the production work, and also the work of performers such as LaLa Brooks, Ronnie Spector, Darlene Love, Sonny Charles, The Righteous Bros.,Ike and Tina et. al. All of that stuff was done well before Spector killed anyone.

His earlier work was patchy. He scored a huge hit with 'To Know Him Is To Love Him' as part of The Teddy Bears, but his production of the first release of 'Twist and Shout', by the Top Notes on Atlantic was hated by pretty much everybody, including the songwriters. His later work was equally controversial.. but I still maintain his 'main period' output represents a major part of the Pop Music/R&B canon.

I don't know enough about the circumstances of the killing to make any judgement other than killling is clearly wrong. But he was also seemingly a very troubled character by that point.

I'm reminded of the time I tried to buy Robert Michels' book 'Political Parties' from the socialist book shop 'Grass Roots'.. in Manchester. I was told 'We wouldn't stock that.' I asked 'Why' and was told: 'Because he was a Fascist'. I replied: 'But he was a Socialist when he wrote Political Parties'. They just looked at me blankly.
 
He was a twat to everyone who had even a passing relationship with him. God help them if they were married to him...

Wiki said:
Ronnie married Phil Spector in 1968 and took his name professionally.[29] In 1969, they adopted a son, Donté Phillip Spector. Two years later, Phil surprised her with adopted twins, Louis and Gary, for Christmas.[30] "The more kids I got, the further I was in that mansion and I never got out until I ran out and escaped," she said.[30]Ronnie detailed in her 1990 memoir, Be My Baby, that she escaped barefoot with the help of her mother in 1972.[31] "I knew that if I didn't leave I was going to die there," she said.[32]

According to Ronnie, Phil subjected her to years of psychological torment and sabotaged her career by forbidding her to perform. He surrounded the house with barbed wire and guard dogs, and he confiscated her shoes to prevent her from leaving.[33] On the rare occasions he allowed her out alone, she had to drive with a life-size dummy of Phil.[32] She began drinking and attending Alcoholics Anonymous meetings to escape the house. She recalled that Phil installed a gold coffin with a glass top in the basement, promising that he would kill her and display her corpse if she ever left him.[34] In 1998, Ronnie testified that Phil had frequently pulled a gun on her during their marriage and threatened to kill her unless she surrendered custody of their children.[33] In their 1974 divorce settlement Ronnie forfeited all future record earnings because Phil threatened to have a hit man kill her.[33] She received $25,000, a used car, and monthly alimony of $2,500 for five years.[33]

He bought her twin kids for Christmas...
 
I didn't claim to and it is quite arrogant for you to assume that I think I know.

He shot her in the head ffs, far more important than his producing some good records in my view.

In the mouth actually he tried to claim it was accidental suicide.

Guy was a Nutcase.

His wife said he kept her prisoner for two years and threatened to hire a hit man to kill her and his two adopted sons said he forced them to sexually abuse his girlfriend.
 
Not only could I not give a shit (his musical career is separate from private life) I UTTERLY reject this thing where an artist can have had say 10 number 1 albums, Grammy awards, be a legend etc and over a 30 year career and then they do something like grab some tit and that's supposed to wipe out a 30 year career. It's likely a momentary blip... they were pissed... whatever...

Using that logic, welcome back to the fold Gary Glitter o_O - and he didn't kill anyone
 
Very interesting discussion now on R4 - Woman's Hour, with Spector's biographer who had spent quite some time interviewing him. From around 10 minutes.

Quite a few comments here, as usual, reasonably well removed from reality.
 
Did someone actually say RIP about a convicted murderer who shot someone in the head?!

The list is long, pulled a gun on Leonard Cohen, shot at John Lennon, pulled a gun on one of the Ramones, kept his wife hostage for years, abused hid adopted sons, bought two kids as Christmas presents, his father killed himself when he was nine, near fatal car crash leaves him disfigured with 300 stitches to his face and four hundred stitches to his head.

The songs were amazing though, To Know Him Is to Love Him (1958) was a line lifted from his father's gravestone, that is deep deep stuff.

R2 are playing Instant Karma right now, incredible stuff.
 
Conservatives are far worse though.... and enabled their pal saville!

Saville was probably up to no good from the late 1950's - early 60's and died in 2011. I was told he was a wrong 'un in the 70's (via a rtrinee nurse working at Stoke Mandeville), but no more than that. After his death, turns out "everyone knew" but did precisely naff all.

How is any of that linked to any or all conservatives? Are Luvvies not predominantly red?

There were 11 British Prime Ministers in that period, 5 of them Labour.

The thread is about a man with serious mental health problems, far more obvious, far more public, than the unsavoury predilections of a creep.
 


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