advertisement


Is Brexit a Very English Thing?

I am a citizen of the planet earth.
Nothing against such a stance and I certainly believe you, and coming from your mouth it's ok. I just can't hear that phrase anymore on radio when it's said by a retired philospher, writer or artist, their undertone being 'I have had the honour to grace the whole planet with my presence'. Depending on how it's said, it can sound rather pretentious.
 
I’m proud of being English and watching movies or reading books of how great we were, coming second and almost winning something. Being proud of having the best roads, best health system, best army, the best whatever the politicians tell us we have and know we don’t
 
Well, the Welsh voted in favour of Brexit, and although it was rejected in Scotland and Nothern Ireland, a sizeable minority did vote Brexit. So no, it's not an English thing. The Guardian has for donkey's years been droning on about the English losing their identity, so I guess your trying to make sort of Centrist argument.
 
Some of you have a case (NI for instance) but all other age-old problems should be forgotten by now, shouldn't they.

Well..there are a few other things you could consider ..like the minor matter of 700 years or so of oppression, tyranny and genocide, with the loss of 5 million or so souls to starvation, fever and forced emigration, South of the Border here in Ireland - but you're right, that's probably only nit-picking .. :)
 
The root cause of Brexit is the complete lack of a sense of English identity. English people have lost their sense of who they are, of what it means to be English in the modern world. They very deeply regret this, without at all recognising it.

Obviously, England is a great nation with a remarkable history, but its citizens have completely lost connection with it. English pride rarely rises above thicko nationalism. The nostalgic jingoism of Brexit is more than anything an expression of the massive insecurity that comes from not knowing who you are.

The Scots, French, Irish and Italians and the rest of Europe all know exactly who they are. That’s why they’re not frightened of the EU and that’s the difference.
 
Well..there are a few other things you could consider ..like the minor matter of 700 years or so of oppression, tyranny and genocide, with the loss of 5 million or so souls to starvation, fever and forced emigration, South of the Border here in Ireland - but you're right, that's probably only nit-picking .. :)
Sure, but no-one of the current generation (nor the generation before) can be held accountable for that. In the same vein, I've always found totally nonsensical that Germans born after WWII were expected - for decades - to feel some sort of collective guilt for the Nazi's deeds. In the mid-nineties I came across quite a few Germans and the guilt was still very present, I think it took the good result at the 2006 World Cup for the Germans to finally feel proud of their country again. Far too late.
 
Sure, but no-one of the current generation (nor the generation before) can be held accountable for that. In the same vein, I've always found totally nonsensical that Germans born after WWII were expected - for decades - to feel some sort of collective guilt for the Nazi's deeds.
Germany has officially acknowledged the wrongs of Nazism.
 
Given that Wales also voted marginally in favour of Brexit, the answer has to be "no", doesn't it?

Or were the "Welsh" Brexit voters all English exiles/expats, so don't count?

I can see why it might be argued that the answer is "yes"

So "maybe" ?
 
Sure, but no-one of the current generation (nor the generation before) can be held accountable for that. In the same vein, I've always found totally nonsensical that Germans born after WWII were expected - for decades - to feel some sort of collective guilt for the Nazi's deeds. In the mid-nineties I came across quite a few Germans and the guilt was still very present, I think it took the good result at the 2006 World Cup for the Germans to finally feel proud of their country again. Far too late.

Germany has officially acknowledged the wrongs of Nazism.

In all honesty, I think your Queen did something similar when she laid a wreath at the Irish Garden of Remembrance here a couple of years ago for people who fought against her country in the times leading up to Independence here. One of the finer pieces of Statesmanship I've ever seen (and I certainly wouldn't have always been a fan).
 
I think this hits the nail on the head, and is so funny it must be repeated at very occassion.
There's a very EV feel to some of this i.e. "what will alter your argument" :D


Excellent.

The root cause of Brexit is the complete lack of a sense of English identity. English people have lost their sense of who they are, of what it means to be English in the modern world. They very deeply regret this, without at all recognising it.

Obviously, England is a great nation with a remarkable history, but its citizens have completely lost connection with it. English pride rarely rises above thicko nationalism. The nostalgic jingoism of Brexit is more than anything an expression of the massive insecurity that comes from not knowing who you are.

The Scots, French, Irish and Italians and the rest of Europe all know exactly who they are. That’s why they’re not frightened of the EU and that’s the difference.

Your first paragraph is interesting bar the certitude that these things add up to 'the root cause of brexit'. The sense of loss of identity, and by extension confidence is interesting though. I suspect that it's far from confined to the English, it may well be the stimulant that is exciting secessionist sympathies in Scotland and Catalonia, amongst others. Have you considered that the homogenising instincts of the EU project itself bear some responsibility?

Be wary of asserting that people aren't frightened of the EU. Is it not possible that a theatrical, even if mutually destructive, exhibition of EU fearmongering is taking place right now, and in very deliberately plain view?
 
I am a citizen of the planet earth. I don’t have much time or respect for nationalism or arbitrary boundaries beyond that.

Brexit is as English nationalist as it is possible to be. It is a remarkably small, blinkered and petty thing.
Well, there's ignorance for you!
 
The English language dominates Great Britain, a dominance achieved, in part at least, by suppression of the other languages.

If language is a primary cultural identifier, then English culture is maintained on less than democratic foundations

And if Brexit is an expression of English culture, should it be imposed on the Welsh and Scots?
The Welsh voted for it, I believe.
 


advertisement


Back
Top