Coronavirus - the new strain XV

[Ponty]

Contract Law was my first thought. If you agree to the terms and conditions of your employment one day, how can they be unilaterally changed the next?

In the real world, very easily. Mine used to change from time to time, sometimes materially. If I didn’t like it, I was free to leave. Employers have businesses to run, C19 didn’t exist when original contracts were signed. No jab, no job, your choice.

 

[mandryka]

no that was just seeking further explanation

"The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) told the government on Tuesday it had not authorised the daily use of 30-minute tests due to concerns that they give people false reassurance if they test negative."

First coffee has not yet travelled from my mouth to my brain, obviously.

 

[ks.234]

In the real world, very easily. Mine used to change from time to time, sometimes materially. If I didn’t like it, I was free to leave. Employers have businesses to run, C19 didn’t exist when original contracts were signed. No jab, no job, your choice.

Yes. The real world of diminishing worker rights and decent Trade Union protections

 

[mandryka]

It looks as though the French government have been reading Pink Fish, where we sussed the absurdity of using rapid testing as a passport for entry into the country, given the false negatives, all the more so given the English Variant. This will change from Monday

https://uk.ambafrance.org/COVID-19-Conditions-de-deplacement-entre-la-France-et-le-Royaume-Uni-28925

 

[Seanm]

Cynic.

Did you get an invitation to community testing in Lewisham? I did in Merton, and I remember it said something about false negatives.

No, haven’t heard anything. Saying something about false negatives is small print, really. The point here is that testing was an answer to the question “What are you doing to get schools open?” that didn’t require them to do very much. It was always impracticable and at very best of very marginal benefit, at worst very counterproductive indeed. TBF they’ve got what they wanted from it now without having to even pay for it (“Well we had a plan but bureaucrats with their red tape prevented us from implementing it”) so everyone wins: the government doesn’t have to do anything, and the public won’t be actively harmed by their malign incompetence, this time, which is about as much as we can hope for right now.

 

[farfromthesun]

4 (severe level one, fatigue): Headache, loss of smell, cough, fever, hoarseness, chest pain, fatigue.

5 (severe level two, confusion): Headache, loss of smell, loss of appetite, cough, fever, hoarseness, sore throat, chest pain, fatigue, confusion, muscle pain.

I spent between 25th Dec and Jan 5th in bed somewhere between these two states (4 & 5). Never in my life have I been that ill or had so many issues to deal with simultaneously; my wife says she considered calling an ambulance a couple of times, but to be honest all I can really remember is the suffering and delirium brought on by a vast cocktail of drugs. I also had a chest infection and an ear infection thrown in for good measure. As I alluded to previously, this was brought home from secondary school - I have been extremely careful otherwise. This experience makes me very keen to emphasise that nobody should take any unnecessary risks. To be blunt, you do not want to suffer like I did. Please take care all.

 

[zarniwoop]

I spent between 25th Dec and Jan 5th in bed somewhere between these two states (4 & 5). Never in my life have I been that ill or had so many issues to deal with simultaneously; my wife says she considered calling an ambulance a couple of times, but to be honest all I can really remember is the suffering and delirium brought on by a vast cocktail of drugs. I also had a chest infection and an ear infection thrown in for good measure. As I alluded to previously, this was brought home from secondary school - I have been extremely careful otherwise. This experience makes me very keen to emphasise that nobody should take any unnecessary risks. To be blunt, you do not want to suffer like I did. Please take care all.

I hope you are on the mend now.

 

[mandryka]

No, haven’t heard anything. Saying something about false negatives is small print, really. The point here is that testing was an answer to the question “What are you doing to get schools open?” that didn’t require them to do very much. It was always impracticable and at very best of very marginal benefit, at worst very counterproductive indeed. TBF they’ve got what they wanted from it now without having to even pay for it (“Well we had a plan but bureaucrats with their red tape prevented us from implementing it”) so everyone wins: the government doesn’t have to do anything, and the public won’t be actively harmed by their malign incompetence, this time, which is about as much as we can hope for right now.

Actually looking at the Merton letter again it doesn't really explain the situation with false negatives. In fact I'd say it's downright misleading. It actually says it’s for people who want a test to be confident they are not carrying the virus. Very poor. I wonder if it was written by Merton or was written by Westminster.

What the MHRA should do, IMO, is get involved in a document explaining the false negatives issue to the general public. Then it would be fine to let the kids have the rapid tests.

 

[matt j]

I spent between 25th Dec and Jan 5th in bed somewhere between these two states (4 & 5). Never in my life have I been that ill or had so many issues to deal with simultaneously; my wife says she considered calling an ambulance a couple of times, but to be honest all I can really remember is the suffering and delirium brought on by a vast cocktail of drugs. I also had a chest infection and an ear infection thrown in for good measure. As I alluded to previously, this was brought home from secondary school - I have been extremely careful otherwise. This experience makes me very keen to emphasise that nobody should take any unnecessary risks. To be blunt, you do not want to suffer like I did. Please take care all.

But don't forget, folks, schools are safe.

Hope you're doing much better.

 

[Andrew L Weekes]

The rapid testing is just a PR thing for the most part in my view. In a lab environment with properly trained staff the lateral flow tests are potentially 80+% accuracte, but a rapidly trained army (literally) of inexperienced staff with little medical background gives false hope and drastically increases the probability of false negatives.

The risk that a false negative can then encourage the wrong behaviours is high, it may be better than nothing, but the behavioural change and vaccination is the key to getting out of this.

 

[farfromthesun]

I hope you are on the mend now.

But don't forget, folks, schools are safe.

Hope you're doing much better.

Thanks.

I am vastly improved, but I'd say I am still only about 80% recovered. I get fatigued doing basic stuff (stairs, shower) but I am countering this by taking daily short walks and trying to spend time on my feet. I am having ridiculous night sweats - which to be honest is probably the worst part since it's interfering with proper rest. I have lost approximately 20lbs (every cloud and all that), but a lot of that has noticeably disappeared from muscle mass. I am going to anticipate that it's going to take a couple of months before I get back to "normal" - I'm 43 next month, FYI.

 

[Seanm]

Actually looking at the Merton letter again it doesn't really explain the situation with false negatives in full. In fact I'd say it's downright misleading, because it at least suggests that you've not got COVID immediately after the test if you score a negative, at least I think this is how people who aren't COVID obsessives would read it.

What the MHRA should do, IMO, is get involved in a document explaining the false negatives issue to the general public. Then it would be fine to let the kids have the rapid tests.

Yes, actively misleading: it actually says that you should be reassured by a negative test. Even if it followed that with “This test is not designed for this purpose and misses over 50% of positive cases” the frame is set. Very dangerous PR.

It’s not the MHRA’s job to handle public health messaging, which would involve an arms race with the government’s PR machine in any case: gvt would simply escalate the positive spin to get what it wants. The situation itself and the incentives of parents would do the rest. “Why would they be doing these tests if they weren’t really reliable? It’s just a cough. He’s here now. Got to be in work in 30 minutes.”

 

[Seanm]

Thanks.

I am vastly improved, but I'd say I am still only about 80% recovered. I get fatigued doing basic stuff (stairs, shower) but I am countering this by taking daily short walks and trying to spend time on my feet. I am having ridiculous night sweats - which to be honest is probably the worst part since it's interfering with proper rest. I have lost approximately 20lbs (every cloud and all that), but a lot of that has noticeably disappeared from muscle mass. I am going to anticipate that it's going to take a couple of months before I get back to "normal" - I'm 43 next month, FYI.

Don’t overdo it is the best advice I got. Good luck, get well soon.

 

[ks.234]

Thanks.

I am vastly improved, but I'd say I am still only about 80% recovered. I get fatigued doing basic stuff (stairs, shower) but I am countering this by taking daily short walks and trying to spend time on my feet. I am having ridiculous night sweats - which to be honest is probably the worst part since it's interfering with proper rest. I have lost approximately 20lbs (every cloud and all that), but a lot of that has noticeably disappeared from muscle mass. I am going to anticipate that it's going to take a couple of months before I get back to "normal" - I'm 43 next month, FYI.

Best wishes

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

In the real world, very easily. Mine used to change from time to time, sometimes materially. If I didn’t like it, I was free to leave. Employers have businesses to run, C19 didn’t exist when original contracts were signed. No jab, no job, your choice.

Understood; our Terms and Conditions are reviewed yearly as part of a Pay Deal. This is voted on by that Union's membership.

It's a bit different in this case though, isn't it. Not even the state is allowed to force people to have a Vaccine... And it seems this is against Employment Law from a previous post.

By no means am I an "Anti Vaccinations" man. Far from it. I'm not a Covid-19 Denier either; I've written chapter and verse here about my safety campaigning at work.

I am against unfair treatment and employers breaking Employment Law. The effects of this are damaging and just at the time that Worker's Rights appear to be in the firing line of our Post UK Exit from the EU Government.

Employment Law is barely enforced now, so ANY move to dilute these protections is of real concern to me.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

Thanks.

I am vastly improved, but I'd say I am still only about 80% recovered. I get fatigued doing basic stuff (stairs, shower) but I am countering this by taking daily short walks and trying to spend time on my feet. I am having ridiculous night sweats - which to be honest is probably the worst part since it's interfering with proper rest. I have lost approximately 20lbs (every cloud and all that), but a lot of that has noticeably disappeared from muscle mass. I am going to anticipate that it's going to take a couple of months before I get back to "normal" - I'm 43 next month, FYI.

Best wishes for a full recovery, all the best, Stu.

 

[wacko]

Strange that people can be forced to get Covid through having to work.
But can't be forced to have the vaccine.

 

[gavreid]

Understood; our Terms and Conditions are reviewed yearly as part of a Pay Deal. This is voted on by that Union's membership.

It's a bit different in this case though, isn't it. Not even the state is allowed to force people to have a Vaccine... And it seems this is against Employment Law from a previous post.

By no means am I an "Anti Vaccinations" man. Far from it. I'm not a Covid-19 Denier either; I've written chapter and verse here about my safety campaigning at work.

I am against unfair treatment and employers breaking Employment Law. The effects of this are damaging and just at the time that Worker's Rights appear to be in the firing line of our Post UK Exit from the EU Government.

Employment Law is barely enforced now, so ANY move to dilute these protections is of real concern to me.

There was a good piece on this yesterday

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-introduce-no-jab-no-job-work-contracts-covid

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Those are almost all researched symptoms that have occurred in some cohorts with Covid, the ZOE Covid symptom study identified a number of additional symptom groups from their research (https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-clusters).

They identified 6 clusters of symptoms:

1 (‘flu-like’ with no fever): Headache, loss of smell, muscle pains, cough, sore throat, chest pain, no fever.

2 (‘flu-like’ with fever): Headache, loss of smell, cough, sore throat, hoarseness, fever, loss of appetite.

3 (gastrointestinal): Headache, loss of smell, loss of appetite, diarrhea, sore throat, chest pain, no cough.

4 (severe level one, fatigue): Headache, loss of smell, cough, fever, hoarseness, chest pain, fatigue.

5 (severe level two, confusion): Headache, loss of smell, loss of appetite, cough, fever, hoarseness, sore throat, chest pain, fatigue, confusion, muscle pain.

6 (severe level three, abdominal and respiratory): Headache, loss of smell, loss of appetite, cough, fever, hoarseness, sore throat, chest pain, fatigue, confusion, muscle pain, shortness of breath, diarrhoea, abdominal pain.

And from my own experience (and that of Mrs P-T), those clusters aren't definitive either, ie you don't automatically get everything on the list for each cluster. We both had severe fatigue, loss of smell, loss of appetite; I also had muscle pain and, sometimes, mild confusion (more like an inability to concentrate or take stuff in); neither of us had a temperature, or the characteristic cough. We both also had some typical cold-like symptoms of sniffles and occasional, fairly mild, headaches, and little a bit of a cough, but not the definitive one.

 

[Nick_G]

Thanks.

I am vastly improved, but I'd say I am still only about 80% recovered. I get fatigued doing basic stuff (stairs, shower) but I am countering this by taking daily short walks and trying to spend time on my feet. I am having ridiculous night sweats - which to be honest is probably the worst part since it's interfering with proper rest. I have lost approximately 20lbs (every cloud and all that), but a lot of that has noticeably disappeared from muscle mass. I am going to anticipate that it's going to take a couple of months before I get back to "normal" - I'm 43 next month, FYI.

Good to hear you're on the mend. That sounded scary. An daily intensive cocktail of deep dub techno should help