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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VII

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russel said:
If you are reduced to making food shortages a positive effect of Brexit in a thread about the positive effects then I think the game is well and truly up.
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I’m not making food shortages a positive, I told you a long time ago there are no positives.

tonerei said:
Brillant Brain butchered in two lines.

Beware expect a passive aggressive that's stupid like post but probably after a few hours thinking it out.
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:D:D:D Keep chipping away. Great second sentence...

russel said:
In fairness Brian did most of the work.
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Whatever you say.
 
Sonority said:
Anyone who has nigh on 40 years of work tied up in their own business, getting stuff in from the EU will have a very real idea of what is occurring.
Many of these have an awful lot to lose.
The stocking levels, the companies you supply, the realisation that it is going to happen, the volatility of the pound versus that stock level, just how long to get stuff in, the shortages of stuff that folks simply have no idea about - is staggering.
The glib replies from some on here are simply unbelievable.
For me, absolutely anyone who voted 'Brexit' has to take the full responsibility for where we are now, including this Tory government - it was simply inevitable.
Still I see 'project Fear' being quoted and it will never happen.
That being said by folks literally staring down the barrel of a howitzer.
Browsing this thread really does show who knows what and those who think they have a grasp.
So much rubbish put up - we live in a world economy, we cannot simply 'go back' and hope to keep the standards we had until January 2021.
I absolutely get that the vote was for out - but do we really need to be that stupid / thick / idiotic?
Well, yes, I guess, we voted this shower into power to enable just that.
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Not all of us.
 
Brian said:
I agree. Some started on the path in 2010. Nutters, eh.
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Oh undoubtedly. But some thought they were brainboxes and went on to greater things. But the real thick-as-a-plank-I-think-I'm-double-guessing-this-but-actually-even-single-guessing-is-way-beyond-my-paygrade moment was the ref.
Wasn't it Br?
 
stephen bennett said:
I appreciate the rock/hard place they are in.

But voting with the Government is putting them in the Article 50 situation again.

Clive Lewis was right then and he’s right now.

Stephen
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Would voting against the government be telling their core voters again they were wrong? They tried this plan last December and it was not a great success. Labour needs new blood and to achieve that they need to appeal to their core voters.
 
ff1d1l said:
Oh undoubtedly. But some thought they were brainboxes and went on to greater things. But the real thick-as-a-plank-I-think-I'm-double-guessing-this-but-actually-even-single-guessing-is-way-beyond-my-paygrade moment was the ref.
Wasn't it Br?
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No, it wasn’t. That moment was the GE in 2015 after 5 years of unnecessary austerity.
 
Sonority said:
As far as I’m concerned, a vote to enable Brexit inevitably led to the enablement of this government. There is / was no other path once the vote was made.
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As far as I’m concerned enabling the tory govt led to brexit. There are no excuses, the referendum was in their 2015 GE manifesto in plain English.

The vote for brexit most definitely did not enable the govt, the govt was there already and but some really pathetic reasons not to support Labour, the tories were very nearly kicked out in 2017.
 
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My partner's MP is on Labour's shadow Brexit team.

For what it's worth he said he thinks there will be a deal, during a recent meeting with his local Labour Party.

Of course, the deal will be far worse than anything envisaged at the start of this process.
 
roman said:
Labour should abstain on any deal. To vote for it is to endorse it and thereby to neuter it's future ability to challenge the government.

To vote against is to be seen to risk no deal, which is irresponsible. I see no other way than to abstain.
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The vote on the deal will be towards the end of December. An abstain policy by labour, thereby leaving it to the Tories to sort out, could help to deliver a no deal Brexit.
I can see the headlines, 'Labour delivers a no deal Brexit'.
 
Colin Barron said:
The vote on the deal will be towards the end of December. An abstain policy by labour, thereby leaving it to the Tories to sort out, could help to deliver a no deal Brexit.
I can see the headlines, 'Labour delivers a no deal Brexit'.
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Yes it's a minefield. You could say that to abstain is to write a blank cheque to the govt, an example of which you provide, but anyone paying attention over the last four years could hardly fail to see where the true blame would lie for no deal.

In an ideal world labour would reject a deal. It would appear less ambiguous and indecisive but on balance abstention seems the best bet. Let the Tories own Brexit in all its glory.
 
Colin Barron said:
The vote on the deal will be towards the end of December. An abstain policy by labour, thereby leaving it to the Tories to sort out, could help to deliver a no deal Brexit.
I can see the headlines, 'Labour delivers a no deal Brexit'.
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Labour. Delivery. Has a nice ring to it.

I wonder who the midwife is...
 
roman said:
Yes it's a minefield. You could say that to abstain is to write a blank cheque to the govt, an example of which you provide, but anyone paying attention over the last four years could hardly fail to see where the true blame would lie for no deal.

In an ideal world labour would reject a deal. It would appear less ambiguous and indecisive but on balance abstention seems the best bet. Let the Tories own Brexit in all its glory.
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On the other hand a vote for the deal has less risk. If Brexit went well they could sell it as the electorate made the correct choice and they were listening. If Brexit goes badly they could sell it as a Tory rubbish deal but not as bad as the no deal option that was the only alternative on offer.
 
Nobody was forced to vote one way or the other with Remain / Leave - it was a choice (albeit a binary stupid one).
Had the vote gone remain who thinks we would be in the situation we are in now with this government in power?
Nope - those who voted leave have this on their shoulders.
A very big Tory mess, enabled by 52% (of those who cared to vote)
To say it was in the manifesto - so what.
It still had to be voted on.
52% said leave?
 
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