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Vitus integrated amps surpass Naim 500 series?

Dealers website is down & it is a big ask to order direct from an unknown source. Some of the flowery language is rather off putting but I would definitely have a listen if they had a better network of dealers.

Kevin's (FiAudio) website is currently going an over-hall. Audionet is German, their website is like a google translated UK version - nuff said ;)
The webshop link is to buy direct from manufacturer.
 
This is similarly priced to the SIA030 but apparently kicks it's ass http://en.audionet.

I believe that the best we can do to help answer questions on differences in Hi-Fi is report on our own listening experiences in an honest way. This is what I attempted to do comparing Naim and Vitus in my earlier post. Listening in the same room with the same speakers and source also helps given a better comparison.
Published reviews, in my experience, are not so helpful as they always give a positive review and rarely give much insight into the sound.

Your quote on the Humboldt amp "kicking the ass" of a Vitus without context raises questions - can you tell us what is the source of the quote? Reviewers rarely compare amps directly as they are very mindful not to annoy potential advertisers. Or was it an anecdotal comment from a Hifi show? Did they compare the two amps in the same room with the same sources and speakers? Do the people who say this have a liking of a certain sound signature which the Humboldt has? To my ears the SIA30 is an extraordinarily good sounding amp and I would sincerely doubt another integrated amp at its price point would 'kick its ass'. Sound different maybe, and maybe sound better to some ears, but sweeping unsubstantiated dismissive statements like that don't necessarily help the person seeking information.

Back to the OPs question. If you are looking at comparing your 550/552 Naim to the Vitus, for the price you should get for your Naim you could buy a new Vitus RI-101 or a second hand SIA025. I have have only heard the RI-100 but there was quite a bit of difference between that and the SIA025 so it is worth trying to listen to them if you can. The RI-100 has a bit more oomph if you have low sensitivity speakers, the SIA025 has a more musical richer and 3 dimensional sound, maybe from its class A design, though interestingly it maintains this even when run in Class AB mode.

When the RI-101 came out I hear that a lot of RI-100 owners upgraded as the 101 amp is apparently quite a bit better. The result is that there are quite a few RI-100 on the market and very good prices. One was on eBay recently at £3.5k which, given the performance you get in a RI-100, seems very good value.
 
Kevin's (FiAudio) website is currently going an over-hall. Audionet is German, their website is like a google translated UK version - nuff said ;)
The webshop link is to buy direct from manufacturer.
Yes, that is all fine, I don’t doubt the gear but would just like a better support network. This is one area where naim/ATC/Linn etc score
 
No disrespect to anyone here but when people start talking about neutrality I tend to switch off. It is such a meaningless term as it is impossible to know what is neutral unless you were in the recording studio. All kinds of eq etc is applied during the recording process so it is impossible to quantify this.

Ultimately some equipment will sound better to that particular person, in that room etc.

The main difference I noticed with the ATC pre compared to naim was a slightly wider & taller stereo image, perhaps a little more detail. I had a sense that it may have been a more accurate rendition but I couldn’t be sure.
 
No disrespect to anyone here but when people start talking about neutrality I tend to switch off. It is such a meaningless term as it is impossible to know what is neutral unless you were in the recording studio. All kinds of eq etc is applied during the recording process so it is impossible to quantify this.

There are a lot of ambiguous words when trying to describe audio as it is impossible to describe things accurately. I'd say though that 'neutrality' is a little more easier to understand than many, opposite as it is to 'coloured' sound. Naim always seems to be very lively in attack on notes and the upper bass seems over-emphasised, which I think combine to give it the "PRaT" sound that many talk about. Naim certainly get your foot tapping anyway. If I listen to a live acoustic piano and I hear a recording of a piano you get a good idea of what a piano sounds like and I know that an engineer tends to try and replicate the live acoustic sound. On most piano recordings I have listened to the Naim does not render the piano as real sounding as the Vitus amps do. I'd say therefore that the Naim has a more coloured sound and the Vitus a more neutral sound. Neither is better nor worse as it depends on what you like, but I think this concept of 'neutrality' has some use, even if it is subjective and vague. But most audio description terms are such.
 
There are a lot of ambiguous words when trying to describe audio as it is impossible to describe things accurately. I'd say though that 'neutrality' is a little more easier to understand than many, opposite as it is to 'coloured' sound. Naim always seems to be very lively in attack on notes and the upper bass seems over-emphasised, which I think combine to give it the "PRaT" sound that many talk about. Naim certainly get your foot tapping anyway. If I listen to a live acoustic piano and I hear a recording of a piano you get a good idea of what a piano sounds like and I know that an engineer tends to try and replicate the live acoustic sound. On most piano recordings I have listened to the Naim does not render the piano as real sounding as the Vitus amps do. I'd say therefore that the Naim has a more coloured sound and the Vitus a more neutral sound. Neither is better nor worse as it depends on what you like, but I think this concept of 'neutrality' has some use, even if it is subjective and vague. But most audio description terms are such.
But we tend not to listen to live recordings, most are created in the studio with all kinds of ‘effects’ factored in. What does ‘coloured’ mean? I just think there are different types of presentation & it is very difficult to say which is more accurate. Look how many people prefer vinyl even though it is less accurate in the strictest sense.

I think one of the reasons naim has been relatively successful is that it is distinctive, certainly not for everyone.
 
I don’t doubt the gear but would just like a better support network. This is one area where naim/ATC/Linn etc score

Well, those three are (still, more or less?) British and long-established. Also bloody expensive on services/repairs. Vitus is in a different situation. However, at those elevated price points I don't expect failures, and only Naim, that I know, has this 10 year service plan approach, then creates expensive specialist upgrades to most amplification to increase owner costs.

No disrespect to anyone here but when people start talking about neutrality I tend to switch off.

Neutrality, whatever it is in the mind of the beholder, is associated with 'colour' or lack of it. I've never been either that comfortable or cognisant with that term as applied to amplification or speakers. However, when applied to tonearms and esp. cartridges, 'neutral' does represent a middle benchmark that most, I feel, understand and equate to.
 
I’ve owned the following in recent years:

Naim nap300/nac252/sc dr
Vitus ri100
Vitus sia-025

My experience was the performance improved in that order too. The vitus sia has a very engaging visceral presentation and should have been my last ever amp. The ri100 will drive difficult speakers with ease and is a bit of a used bargain these days.

Never heard an audionet so can’t comment there.
 
Well, those three are (still, more or less?) British and long-established. Also bloody expensive on services/repairs. Vitus is in a different situation. However, at those elevated price points I don't expect failures, and only Naim, that I know, has this 10 year service plan approach, then creates expensive specialist upgrades to most amplification to increase owner costs.



Neutrality, whatever it is in the mind of the beholder, is associated with 'colour' or lack of it. I've never been either that comfortable or cognisant with that term as applied to amplification or speakers. However, when applied to tonearms and esp. cartridges, 'neutral' does represent a middle benchmark that most, I feel, understand and equate to.
You can criticise naim for their pricing but I think their approach to customer service & servicing is better than anyone else’s in that range. They also have an approved service agent in Sheffield who is very reasonable. All electrical equipment will need attention at some point regardless of how ‘expensive’ it is. At least naim gear is worth servicing as it has a strong resale value

I don’t think ATC are expensive & I understand their after sales service is excellent.
 
Well i had the sia025 on demo from Richard for a few weeks, as i was looking to move my 552 and 500dr on, at first i liked what the vitus did, but this comes with its own problems.
I found i only really liked it in class A mode, rather than A/B.
In class A it gets very hot.
You cant really leave it on 24/7 in class A, because its to hot, use lots of power and be worried about it.
So leave it in standby, this then for me was a problem as it took atleast an hour before i felt it started to sound as it should, and really it got better as move time you had it on, this felt like i had to try and work out each day, when i was going to listen, this just didnt work for me.
Lastly i found myself only listening to certain tracks, i didnt realize this for quite sone time, the reason was because these tracks suited the sound and the others now didn't sound so good.
But the sia025 could sound fantastic, nice detail and super wide.

But for me in the end the Naim still had it, i like its punch, its fast sound, it can't match the vitus sia025 for certain music, but lost out then on others to the naim.
I like the way i can just sit down and go, no waiting.
I certainly dont miss the heat the vitus pumps out, as it like a radiator.
I decided to get my 552 serviced and its power supply dr'ed and this has pushed it to new highs

If i was ever going to revisit this, then i would try the sia30 this time round, as this might bring more to the party over the sia025, and have a more off a sound i like, but in no rush to try, also i see, quite a few owners off vitus dont stay for long, a year or two and they move it on, that also worries me, as vitus doesn't hold its value that great, especially compared to Naim
 
Well i had the sia025 on demo from Richard for a few weeks, as i was looking to move my 552 and 500dr on, at first i liked what the vitus did, but this comes with its own problems.
I found i only really liked it in class A mode, rather than A/B.

This is really interesting to me as I find the difference between the two not that great. I find it takes 30 mins to get from AB into full Class A and it is a little richer and a deeper wider sound, but it is subtle on my system.

So leave it in standby, this then for me was a problem as it took atleast an hour before i felt it started to sound as it should, and really it got better as move time you had it on, this felt like i had to try and work out each day, when i was going to listen, this just didnt work for me.

Just a note in case other prospective owners are reading: best to leave it in Class AB mode rather than standby. In class AB it is the equivalent of leaving a Naim amp on 24/7. In Class AB it is barely warm but it sounds instantly great. Leaving it in standby means it starts up cold and does take a while to sound at its best. @Hound if you were putting it into full standby then it would take a long time to get to class A.


Lastly i found myself only listening to certain tracks, i didnt realize this for quite sone time, the reason was because these tracks suited the sound and the others now didn't sound so good.
But the sia025 could sound fantastic, nice detail and super wide.

Interested to know which sorts of music you felt sounded better on which. On my system with my ears the Naim system sounded as good as the Vitus on electronic music but not anything else.


If i was ever going to revisit this, then i would try the sia30 this time round, as this might bring more to the party over the sia025, and have a more off a sound i like, but in no rush to try, also

If you do ever try the SIA30 I suspect you will like it. Where the SIA025 is more rounded the SIA030 is crisp and punchy but the weird thing is it maintains that ease of listening that the SIA025 has despite the sound having more bite. And the control and dynamics it shows at all sound levels is just incredible. It is definitely a 'forever' amp.


see, quite a few owners off vitus dont stay for long, a year or two and they move it on, that also worries me, as vitus doesn't hold its value that great, especially compared to Naim
Do owners move on more than other brands? I'd have said it was less than most brands apart from Naim which does command great loyalty. I know of a fair few Vitus owners and none of those have moved on except @Knipester who commented above. The people I know with Vitus tend to buy an amp as a 'lifer'. The amps in production tend to command around 50% of their retail price which is broadly in line with Naim. When they stop being produced (eg RI-100) yes they do drop again, though I think this is common when brands bring out new versions of amps (or speakers, or cars even). One of the great things about Naim is that they keep their models constant which helps maintain values, apart from the exception of the DR introduction which has lowered the value of non-DR gear.
 
Well i had the sia025 on demo from Richard for a few weeks, as i was looking to move my 552 and 500dr on, at first i liked what the vitus did, but this comes with its own problems.
I found i only really liked it in class A mode, rather than A/B.
In class A it gets very hot.
You cant really leave it on 24/7 in class A, because its to hot, use lots of power and be worried about it.
So leave it in standby, this then for me was a problem as it took atleast an hour before i felt it started to sound as it should, and really it got better as move time you had it on, this felt like i had to try and work out each day, when i was going to listen, this just didnt work for me.
Lastly i found myself only listening to certain tracks, i didnt realize this for quite sone time, the reason was because these tracks suited the sound and the others now didn't sound so good.
But the sia025 could sound fantastic, nice detail and super wide.

But for me in the end the Naim still had it, i like its punch, its fast sound, it can't match the vitus sia025 for certain music, but lost out then on others to the naim.
I like the way i can just sit down and go, no waiting.
I certainly dont miss the heat the vitus pumps out, as it like a radiator.
I decided to get my 552 serviced and its power supply dr'ed and this has pushed it to new highs

If i was ever going to revisit this, then i would try the sia30 this time round, as this might bring more to the party over the sia025, and have a more off a sound i like, but in no rush to try, also i see, quite a few owners off vitus dont stay for long, a year or two and they move it on, that also worries me, as vitus doesn't hold its value that great, especially compared to Naim

I demo'ed the sia030 against my 500 system and found myself in the same situation, liking it then not so sure was almost convinced, then the mrs came home and made it clear it wasn't staying
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if the reference series seen on the used market are from owners who have moved further up the range...
 
Duckworp
I have i guess quite a revealing system, i did also leave it in A/B mode, when not in use, yes it warmed up quicker but still didn't feel like it was fully optimized for about an hour.
In my system class A was definitely nicer than class A/B, so much so i didn't like it in that mode at all. Much smoother, better details, just better.
As for music, then the better the quality the better, tracks that i coulď just about listen to, older 80's stuff just sounded much worse on the vitus, whereas the naim could make them listening bearable, but its definitely more a classical amp, rather than a rock amp.
The rock setting on the 030, might be good or a gimmick, but just having such a thing makes me think why?
But i have found adding a great source to the naim 552dr/500dr has fantastic results, and i am very happy right now
 
Duckworp

The rock setting on the 030, might be good or a gimmick, but just having such a thing makes me think why?

I asked Vitus about this in Munich. He said that it is a very simple internal switch which gives the amp a little more of a forward presentation (to my ears it makes it more Naim like). It is subtle. He said some people prefer this though often, if they initially do prefer, they come around to the 'classic' sound. He felt (and I do also) that the 'classic' is the better voicing. Though it has to be said that on electronic music and some rock it is handy to be able to switch over.

I was interested to read the tracks which the Naim could handle but the Vitus didn't like so much on your system, ie older 80s stuff. On my system the Naim amps really did not like these recordings, making them harsh and really hard to listen to whereas the Vitus presents them in a more listenable way. I find it fascinating that we hear things so differently. I wonder if it is the difference in our respective rooms/speakers/sources or if it is our respective ears which create these different impressions? It just goes to show that home auditioning is so important.
 


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