EHRC report into Labour
- Thread starter lordsummit
- Start date
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I disagree and so will anybody for whom removing the tories from govt is priority #1. You won’t prevent any of what you say becoming worse in the UK by supporting any other party. than Labour.
Tony L
Administrator
I’d argue supporting any progressive party other than Labour that can actually win the seat would be hugely preferential, but as ever tactical voting against the Tory (and any far-right/UKIP or whatever that shite is called next time) is priority #1.
For clarity: I have never argued against tactical voting. I will never allow my vote to allow a Tory or other far-right party in. I just believe firmly in progressive and truly democratic politics, so Labour are pretty much the worst of the available alternatives. Just look at their recent track record of abstaining on votes for oppressive far-right authoritarianism. They really are a bit shit.
Cav
pfm Member
Most voters, of whatever political persuasion, are simply not interested in reports such as this. It will have a negligible or even zero effect on the next election and will be out of the news by Christmas or whenever the next national lockdown is imposed.
I accept you are desperate for Labour to fail but this won't do it.
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lordsummit
Moderator
I’ve just reread some sections of the report. I don’t think it’s the end of the road for Labour, I do though think it’s Starmer’s Militant moment. It’s the opportunity to lose some pretty unseemly baggage, and a chance to start a new chapter hopefully with lessons learnt.
The report reiterates something important that Corbyn era Labour seemed to forget. Leadership and a strategic vision is important. If you are the leader of an organisation, the buck stops with you. Starmer for his faults, does seem to understand this, and has stood up very squarely and said that AS must stop. Corbyn didn’t because the people implicated were his allies. I’m certain at his first cabinet meeting Starmer will have told his cabinet in no uncertain terms of the consequences of not following the part line. Rebecca Long-Bailey fell because of this.
We cannot remain in denial saying that the report is overstating the issue, or as Corbyn said it ‘dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party’
That sentence is the rope that Corbyn has hung himself on. The report found the leadership lacking, it found the leaders office illegally interfered in the process, and the then leader is still saying the problem is exaggerated. To all intents and purposes he’s saying that he doesn’t agree with the EHRC report.
I’ve never thought that 2024 was a likely target although I think there’s more a chance than there was. If Starmer continues to clear the mess up assertively, if the Tories self destruct as they continue to do, there’s a chance we can put this shameful episode behind us. We have to stop making excuses though. We cannot blame this on others, and we have to move forward accepting it was wrong. Anyone who doesn’t will hinder the party and shouldn’t be in it.
The report reiterates something important that Corbyn era Labour seemed to forget. Leadership and a strategic vision is important. If you are the leader of an organisation, the buck stops with you. Starmer for his faults, does seem to understand this, and has stood up very squarely and said that AS must stop. Corbyn didn’t because the people implicated were his allies. I’m certain at his first cabinet meeting Starmer will have told his cabinet in no uncertain terms of the consequences of not following the part line. Rebecca Long-Bailey fell because of this.
We cannot remain in denial saying that the report is overstating the issue, or as Corbyn said it ‘dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party’
That sentence is the rope that Corbyn has hung himself on. The report found the leadership lacking, it found the leaders office illegally interfered in the process, and the then leader is still saying the problem is exaggerated. To all intents and purposes he’s saying that he doesn’t agree with the EHRC report.
I’ve never thought that 2024 was a likely target although I think there’s more a chance than there was. If Starmer continues to clear the mess up assertively, if the Tories self destruct as they continue to do, there’s a chance we can put this shameful episode behind us. We have to stop making excuses though. We cannot blame this on others, and we have to move forward accepting it was wrong. Anyone who doesn’t will hinder the party and shouldn’t be in it.
clifftaylor
Absolutely retired!
"The report reiterates something important that Corbyn era Labour seemed to forget. Leadership and a strategic vision is important. If you are the leader of an organisation, the buck stops with you."
Exactly.
Exactly.
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
I don’t blame you for not getting involved. But thanks for this. My MP, Tahir Ali, is on that list, and this was the first I’d seen about it. So I’m glad of the chance to see what was said (as it happens, at a hustings meeting I tried to go to, but couldn’t get in because it was full).
Having now read the allegations on the CAAS site, I don’t agree that my MP has a case to answer. But it’s always good to be able to read the information for oneself.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Looking forward to the report into Tory islamophobia and the general racism, including that of their leader.
I worry that Labour will split now. They’d be lucky to form a coalition against the Tories as it is.
Racism doesn’t split the Tories. It makes them stronger.
Stephen
I worry that Labour will split now. They’d be lucky to form a coalition against the Tories as it is.
Racism doesn’t split the Tories. It makes them stronger.
Stephen
Seanm
pfm Member
Nothing says "We need to take antisemitism seriously" like also saying "We need to use this as as opportunity in our factional struggle".
I think part of the problem here is that some factions don't recognise themselves as factions. It's the only explanation I can see for people castigating others for suggesting antisemitism has been instrumentalised by anti-left factions while simultaneously explicitly calling for their faction to instrumentalise antisemitism agains the left.
Also Corbyn did not say that the report overstated the issue. He said that accusations prior to the report overstated the issue, which is true. There are legitimate criticisms that can be levelled against Corbyn for saying it now, in this way, even if it is true. But the kind of discussion that might come out of that never happens when people...overstate the issue.
lordsummit
Moderator
Or should we let those who were responsible for leading the party at this time escape their responsibility for this mess?
This is the nub of the problem. The report debunks the constant argument that it was overstated, it certainly debunks his protestations that he took it seriously enough, and it debunks the protestations that his office didn’t get involved in the investigations or am I missing something here?
I don’t believe this to be true, but your statement reads rather like you believe that this will be used as a stick to beat the left of the party. I prefer to think that those responsible for the mess will be made accountable for it. I am aware where I sit in the vast pantheon of the Labour Party, John Smith and Ed Milliband were the leaders who represented best my beliefs. I have crossed swords with you over Corbyn and anti-semitism before, but I do see it as necessary for any degree of electability to return that this issue is closed off. That those accountable are held to account, and if necessary cease to represent the party. It may anger McCluskey if his allies vanish and he ceases to have such influence, he’s toxic electorally though and no help to the party beyond financially. Where would you see the finger of blame pointing? Should we not accept the report fully, act accordingly and try to learn from it?
I only just heard JC’s dunderheaded response on R4 news, just illustrates how incredibly dense he is. He was completely unfit for office & yet the usual acolytes on here ‘like’ the usual apologists.
All he had to do was say sorry & move on but he further torpedoes the LP.
I will still vote Labour as the least worst option & in the hope that the current regime may improve things. Ever the optimist.
All he had to do was say sorry & move on but he further torpedoes the LP.
I will still vote Labour as the least worst option & in the hope that the current regime may improve things. Ever the optimist.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I don’t think either of them could claim this.
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
Seanm
pfm Member
Does the report call for a mass purge of members? Or for the then-leaders to be expelled from the party? Because that's what you seem to be calling for with your reference to a "Militant moment", like many others. These acts would constitute a factional war. If your wishes run ahead of the EHRC's recommendations that you're using antisemitism to justify a factional war. I've no doubt you're doing it in good faith, but that's what you're doing.
Anyway, it's happening. If there were ever an opportunity to address the actual issue of antisemitism in the Labour Party it disappeared when HQ made the decision to suspend Corbyn. This is all obviously part of the whole problem to begin with, and I don't want to contribute to it any more than I already have, so I'm going to duck out.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I’m glad it’s out there and they have to address it. It may take time but it’s the first step in cleaning up the party so they are once again potentially electable. Starmer may just be the man to do this. He may not lead in the future but if he can bring the Party back to a form of maturity and credibility he will have done a good job. He’s probably the best person to do it and he has that lawyer clarity to cut through/wade through this whole sordid mess. If he has to sythe away some of the past, it’s a necessary step. It may not be popular but not sure that most of these are popular anyway.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
The report won’t but someone will need to. Otherwise bye bye Labour and hello Tories for a very long time. Starmer has been decisive so far. Again, let’s see. Not an easy job but she has the best chance of negotiating this.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The Labour Party has just lost one activist at least.