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OFOG* finally decides on E-Bike

If I didn't use my ebikes, I wouldn't ride a bike because my knees would be too painful, so whatever energy I expend can only be a bonus.
That plus the fresh air and beautiful Yorkshire scenery.
Only in the Summer!

I use my ebike because I have arthritis in my knees, feet and back and can no longer drive through poor eyesight. We have the sea and Sussex country side and the South Downs way.

Cheers,

DV
 
Which give you zero exercise. That’s the thing about an ebike, it takes the sting out of hills etc but is still good exercise.
Yes. I ride with support off and then when I feel the pull is getting too much add from 1 to 4 levels of support at the push of a button. So I get the exercise without damaging my knees and feet.

Cheers,

DV
 
critically torque sensing which means the electric motor assistance is dependent on pedal pressure. Generally bikes have evolved over
that time.
You could say nothing much has changed in EV’s
in that time too - clearly you’d be wrong!

Not sure what this means, as pedal power went in tandem with the motor on our old bike. I would be interested if the range had increased as a result of this battery technology.

I could but I wouldn't as I've no idea so wouldn't be wrong !!!!!
 
Think you'll need to elaborate on that. I've no idea what torque sensing is either (gobbledegook?)

Electric bike; 200w motor; pedals. 25 mile + range. Sufficient oomph to climb reasonable hills without pedalling; can fit in the car; lead/acid battery lasts about 8 years. That's certainly all I need so what vast improvements have manifest themselves in 15 years, apart from smaller batteries ?

Torque sensors in the cranks measure how hard you are pedalling and adjust the power input. The old style bike probably had a thumb throttle which is no longer legal on new bikes. New legal e-bikes cannot climb hills without pedal input.

The power on new legal e-bikes can only be applied if you are pedalling. Either pedal movement or torque sensors are used. Torque sensors are thought by many to give a more natural cycling experience.

The control system on new e-bikes usually has about 4 levels of assistance, with sophisticated control systems.

Lead acid batteries do not like regular deep discharge, Lithium Ion battery can cope better and the control system almost certainly cuts the power before the battery is damaged.

Motors and associated gearboxes are almost certainly more efficient and lighter than on a 15 year old bike.
 
New legal e-bikes cannot climb hills without pedal input.
The power on new legal e-bikes can only be applied if you are pedalling.

Now that's a real change and for my part, a negative one, assuming I've understood correctly. An electric bike which you can't use without pedalling? Think I must have the wrong end of the stick here, because that is simply counter-intuitive.
 
My main worry about spending multiple thousands on an e-bike would be manufacturer support. Will I be able to get a replacement battery in 5yrs, 10yrs etc. If there's no replacement battery the bike is totally useless. Otherwise they seem like a great thing.
Companies repack them now at less than half the price of replacements. Battery life issues aren't really a concern.
 
Now that's a real change and for my part, a negative one, assuming I've understood correctly. An electric bike which you can't use without pedalling? Think I must have the wrong end of the stick here, because that is simply counter-intuitive.

You can get electric bikes that don't require pedalling but they're legally mopeds or motorbikes requiring the requisite licensing, insurance etc. (which I think is fair enough IMHO). That's pretty much standard across Europe, not just a UK thing.
 
Now that's a real change and for my part, a negative one, assuming I've understood correctly. An electric bike which you can't use without pedalling? Think I must have the wrong end of the stick here, because that is simply counter-intuitive.
An e-bike in EU countries must be assisting the rider, not replacing it.

I do agree that many things introduced by the EU are counter intuitive.
 
You can get electric bikes that don't require pedalling but they're legally mopeds or motorbikes requiring the requisite licensing, insurance etc.
An e-bike in EU countries must be assisting the rider, not replacing it.

Well well, so our little £400 E-bike of 15 years ago was superior by dint of being considered a cycle. I wonder what arcane rationale was involved in the subsequent E.U. ruling rendering E-bikes as neither fish nor fowl.
 
Well well, so our little £400 E-bike of 15 years ago was superior by dint of being considered a cycle. I wonder what arcane rationale was involved in the subsequent E.U. ruling rendering E-bikes as neither fish nor fowl.
I think someone somewhere took issue with throttles. So in some ways old ebikes pre-EU intervention have kudos. I think I only ever saw them with throttles.
 
Think you'll need to elaborate on that. I've no idea what torque sensing is either (gobbledegook?)

Electric bike; 200w motor; pedals. 25 mile + range. Sufficient oomph to climb reasonable hills without pedalling; can fit in the car; lead/acid battery lasts about 8 years. That's certainly all I need so what vast improvements have manifest themselves in 15 years, apart from smaller batteries ?

All I can think of which would be advantageous is: lighter bike (ours wasn't heavy though); vastly improved range; far more power/torque for hills; more efficient braking (discs?); weather protecting panels a la scooter or m/bike; greater luggage carrying capacity; superior lighting, even when stationary.

Tones above has mentioned some pros of lithium batteries.
You may as well ask how a Toyota Prius is better than a Morris Minor from 1968. They'll both get you to the shops.
 
I’m still very happy with my 2011 Stromer - torque sense on these was already good back then, I’m sure a bit better today. Main issue with it is the weight! I paid chf 1k back in 2017/18 secondhand, one low kms owner. Used to use it for a 50km commute to office, and started again this year (when I was in the office, 1 day a week) - still great exercise, but as I’m doing 40km/h instead of 25 on a normal bike, less duration of exercise - no bad thing for me at my age, especially as last 4km home is all uphill :) It also has the benefit of being faster than a car to commute, as I can jump all the traffic.

Worth noting - I bought a repacked battery when I first bought. After 1.5-2 years of non use, it no longer held its charge as well as before. Probably 40% drop off - I assume due to non use rather than age.
 
I’m still very happy with my 2011 Stromer - torque sense on these was already good back then, I’m sure a bit better today. Main issue with it is the weight! I paid chf 1k back in 2017/18 secondhand, one low kms owner. Used to use it for a 50km commute to office, and started again this year (when I was in the office, 1 day a week) - still great exercise, but as I’m doing 40km/h instead of 25 on a normal bike, less duration of exercise - no bad thing for me at my age, especially as last 4km home is all uphill :) It also has the benefit of being faster than a car to commute, as I can jump all the traffic.

Worth noting - I bought a repacked battery when I first bought. After 1.5-2 years of non use, it no longer held its charge as well as before. Probably 40% drop off - I assume due to non use rather than age.
Duff I'd say. I have a battery powered lawnmower thats 13 years old. The Bosch Li-ion batteries are still as good as new for power. If my bike battery is good for say 1000 discharge cycles and I get 50 miles per charge then thats 50K miles.

Cheers,

DV
 
I think someone somewhere took issue with throttles. So in some ways old ebikes pre-EU intervention have kudos. I think I only ever saw them with throttles.

Maybe, Richard, on the basis that having a throttle is tantamount to a scooter, m/bike etc., yet is still a cycle legally. Yes, all the bikes we looked at in 2003/4 had throttles. The pedals were used for starting off and assistance on hills; no point otherwise except as a back-up for loss of charge.

You may as well ask how a Toyota Prius is better than a Morris Minor from 1968. They'll both get you to the shops.

I'd take the Minor, as I had a Traveller (wood) in 1968 c/w cross-ply tyres. Strange comparison though, Steve, as you seem to have missed my point, which was that an E bike with no independent electric power is a retrograde step to those which preceded them. The early ones were effectively electric scooters with pedal assist. Nowadays, they're pedal with electric assist. Different, and far less practical animals, i.m.o.

The earlier E bikes were more like eco versions of the ordinary cycles with small petrol engines powering one wheel which were ubiquitous in France in the fifties onward. Now IF the newer E bikes were as light and traditionally functional as ordinary geared cycles, but with that boost when needed, I could understand the allure. Having once been a m/cyclist and scooterist, it's either leg and pedal power or sit back and be transported for me.

About the only attraction I can envisage is for people who relish a bit of leg exercise but not too much! Heck of a price to pay for that niche requirement.
 
Now IF the newer E bikes were as light and traditionally functional as ordinary geared cycles, but with that boost when needed, I could understand the allure.

That is exactly what I wanted, and that, I believe, is exactly what I'm about to get - something that is pretty much a normal bike, but with the boost there when I need it (to climb the hill on top of which we live). As a normal unpowered bike, the Turbo Vado 5 feels fine, but when I hit the magic button as the slope increases (up to 23%) I am enabled to get up it. Just what I personally wanted, but chacun à son goût.
 
Have you seen how many ebikes there are out on the road? I think you are somewhat out of step with mainstream opinion on this.

No, I haven't, but I don't get out that much nowadays.

- something that is pretty much a normal bike, but with the boost there when I need it
You have described new e-bikes perfectly.

I'm now warming to these new E bikes.:). No way could the older ones be used as a cycle except for short runs of necessity. From the 3 descriptions above, I had the wrong image of them, obv. Am interested to investigate.
 
I've been interested in the idea of an E Bike for several years now. I like walking, but it is getting harder by the day as both knees and my legs fail to obey me, and the old ticker continues its inevitable decline. Add in that I live in a village where everywhere is up hill.. or to quote the locals.. 'It's all up't broo dahn theer'.

I'd like to be able to cycle down onto the flat areas a couple of miles away.. cycle a way under my own steam on the flat and then use a bit of 'assist' to get home. I also wouldn't object if the bike could take over completely when needed...even on hills.

It occurs that the 'EU regulation limiting EBikes to 'assisting'.. may be one of the more welcome casualties of Brexit.

15 mph limit?
The other day I was on foot.. breaking out of the fields onto one of the main roads into the village and watching for motor traffic before crossing. Next I knew.. some young lad shot past at a terrific speed on an almost silent 'bike' of some description. The only thing I heard was tyre noise. The lad wasn't pedalling. He'd just come UP a long hill, unless he was exceptionally foolish and had gained momentum on a descending farm track before turning into the main road on a blind bend.. I'd estimate his speed at a minimum of 30 mph.. possibly more. Will an e bike do that?
 


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