droodzilla
pfm Member
Honestly, I don't think they are even doing that.
They are doing nothing.
Herd immunity by stealth, under cover of an elaborate pantomime.
They're still polling 40%+ so why worry?
Coronavirus - the new strain XII
- Thread starter russel
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They are doing nothing.
Herd immunity by stealth, under cover of an elaborate pantomime.
They're still polling 40%+ so why worry?
The new restrictions are a smokescreen which they will magically lift just before Christmas to present as some kind of triumph.
No evidence that Pubs are significant vectors but easier than trying to police people in their homes. At least the gyms are being kept open in the SYR.
No evidence that Pubs are significant vectors but easier than trying to police people in their homes. At least the gyms are being kept open in the SYR.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
It comes down to what I was saying last week, the Cabinet cabal just isn't smart enough to be making these choices...
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Pubs and bars are significant sources of infections - the evidence is all out there. This study links to a Washington Post article too...
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/more-evidence-points-bars-adding-covid-19-spread
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/more-evidence-points-bars-adding-covid-19-spread
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
I fear you are correct.
An epidemiologist from UEA was discussing the upswing in cases.
He said there wasn't any evidence that it was caused by Schools or Universities either.
The seeds were set by the 'opening up' in July without proper track, trace and isolate.
Stephen
mandryka
pfm Member
Partially effective vaccine and significant use of antigen testing maybe. My guess is that's what they're pinning their hopes on. Are there better options?
Monitor Gold 10
pfm Member
I was offered an opportunity (based on my campaign for better conditions at work) to become a Local Councillor.
I went through the process of being approved at the Local Party level. I really felt I could make a difference. Covid-19 put paid to campaigning and Local Elections of course.
I began to feel that I couldn't make a difference in this area. I got the impression that I'd be a useful "Poster Boy" to be paraded around to convince people that the party isn't "Racist".
I had a good chat with some friends and decided to cut up my Membership Card.
This was around the time of the Cummings debacle. Instead of expressing my disgust online, I wrote an email to my Local MP.
Still waiting for an apology from DC.
I also felt uncomfortable at Cabinet Meetings when anyone from the opposition was referred to as "Socialists".
I got the distinct impression that anyone who disagrees with the Party Line is a "Socialist". There was a lot of infighting too.
To me, that is childish. If it isn't possible to criticise someone constructively, don't bother!
I also felt uncomfortable with certain members speaking highly of Marine Le Pen and Steve Bannon...
I've decided to continue to work hard to improve conditions in my workplace. I have made a difference before and I will continue to do so.
I went through the process of being approved at the Local Party level. I really felt I could make a difference. Covid-19 put paid to campaigning and Local Elections of course.
I began to feel that I couldn't make a difference in this area. I got the impression that I'd be a useful "Poster Boy" to be paraded around to convince people that the party isn't "Racist".
I had a good chat with some friends and decided to cut up my Membership Card.
This was around the time of the Cummings debacle. Instead of expressing my disgust online, I wrote an email to my Local MP.
Still waiting for an apology from DC.
I also felt uncomfortable at Cabinet Meetings when anyone from the opposition was referred to as "Socialists".
I got the distinct impression that anyone who disagrees with the Party Line is a "Socialist". There was a lot of infighting too.
To me, that is childish. If it isn't possible to criticise someone constructively, don't bother!
I also felt uncomfortable with certain members speaking highly of Marine Le Pen and Steve Bannon...
I've decided to continue to work hard to improve conditions in my workplace. I have made a difference before and I will continue to do so.
mandryka
pfm Member
gavreid
Pretty Words...
'Cause' is tricky word. Schools and unis didn't cause the increase, both schools and unis were shut at the time. The relaxation, coupled with the failure to track and trace while numbers were low, caused the problems. However, that doesn't mean the problem didn't accelerate when schools opened, and that both are not a major problem today...
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
South Yorkshire Region?
The sad truth is that no-one actually knows how best to control the virus without crashing the economy. The UK is in a bad place for many reasons, including a fundamentally unfit/unhealthy population, especially in poorer areas, an NHS that's been continually buggered about with by successive governments, and an administration that is unfit for purpose. Unlocking everything in July means that we are now trying to bottle smoke. The scientific consensus, such as it is, suggests that current measures are too little, too late.
The sad truth is that no-one actually knows how best to control the virus without crashing the economy. The UK is in a bad place for many reasons, including a fundamentally unfit/unhealthy population, especially in poorer areas, an NHS that's been continually buggered about with by successive governments, and an administration that is unfit for purpose. Unlocking everything in July means that we are now trying to bottle smoke. The scientific consensus, such as it is, suggests that current measures are too little, too late.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
I think that's a gross oversimplification. The virus needs a hard reset now (possibly until Christmas) to get case numbers down to a level where T&T will work again. I think you can add 2-3 weeks for every week of delay. Then there will then be a need for shorter shutdowns when cases are beginning to rise again. All this was understood back in March. If crashing the economy means continuing to allow the spivs to have their cake and eat it, while we all live off the crumbs - yes, the economy can no longer operate in that fashion because there will be no crumbs. Incidentally T&T was known to be the best strategy well before this coronavirus existed in humans. BTW there is no herd immunity without a comprehensive vaccination programme.
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Monitor Gold 10
pfm Member
mandryka
pfm Member
That's presumably where there's disagreement, I just can't comment on this question meaningfully, I'm not qualified. But there was a remark by Boris in a press conference yesterday where he basically said R is above 1 but not by much so it can be brought down without shutting everything down. He's now set things up so that the mayors have to take the responsibility for doing this -- I wonder if they will rise to the challenge.
Maybe, but maybe not. I think the big lesson of what happened in summer is that people let themselves go when a hard lockdown is eased, and they don't follow health advice about isolating, probably because they can't. Can that really be prevented from happening again? By our government, with Boris at the helm? Not obvious -- it will involve a major change not just of policy but also of communication style.
droodzilla
pfm Member
This is one of the most pernicious myths about the current crisis.
It's not ether/or. Countries with lower death rates per million population tend to have better economic outcomes (as measured by GDP growth forecasts):
https://99-percent.org/how-did-we-get-into-this-mess/
The first figure is relevant: the UK is down in the bottom right corner, along with Spain and Italy.
We do know how to control the virus without crashing the economy but this government either can't or won't do it.
That’s just it, no one seems to know definitively. I think the key vector appears to be mixing indoors, at peoples houses where no Covid mitigation (or less) takes place.
Govt just feels it has to do something to appear strong.
I should have put used inverted commas, ‘triumph’. It refers to how it will be spun.
Our economy is heavily weighted to the service sector so has suffered greatly in lockdown. I am not defending the govt as it is successive Tory regimes that have shaped the economy in this direction.
Every country has suffered greatly during this period & have taken measures which have put the economy first at certain times. I am not sure the current restrictions will do any good in either direction sadly.
Yes, I was mainly referring to our actual ‘lockdown’ which started in March. Tier 3 is probably better for a number of hospitality businesses.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Sorry but not sure I wholly agree with this. 2 factors - the Lib Dem’s were involved a short while ago, and Labour didn’t exactly consider things too well when they were in power. But I do appreciate the Labour bias on here, so I’ll get shot down(and I’ve said before what my political leaning is).
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