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Coronavirus - the new strain XI

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gavreid said:
Labour appears to be heading to right of Government and may join the Tory Right in voting down the Rule of 6 and 10 pm pub closure. I would close pubs at 6pm to avoid the drunken scenes at 10pm or keep them shut if landlords continue to allow people to drink irresponsibly (which is illegal in itself.)

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-expected-at-votes-on-curfew-and-rule-of-six
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It's all avoiding the real issue. Are pubs safe or spreading zones? It's one or the other. The choice is open or closed and commit to that.

The 10pm closure causes more problems than it solves, typical of populist solutions.
 
SteveS1 said:
It's all about avoiding the real issue. Are pubs safe or spreading zones? It's one or the other. The answer is open or close, the 10pm closure causes more problems than it solves.
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That doesn't excuse the Labour populism. Weekly cases are now running at half a percent of the population is some areas of the north and London, that's 1 in 200. So that's at least one case per busy pub at 10 pm acting as a superspreader. What are these MPs think of - just too bl**dy feart (to continue our Glaswegian lesson)
 
gavreid said:
That doesn't excuse the Labour popularism. Weekly cases are now running at half a percent of the population is some areas of the north and London, that's 1 in 200. So that's at least one case per busy pub at 10 pm acting as a superspreader. What are these MPs think of - just too bl**dy feart (to continue our Glaswegian lesson)
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Should Labour be supporting closure or leaving them open? The 10pm thing is a red herring. It's like worried parents thinking sex only happens if teenagers are out late.
 
SteveS1 said:
Should Labour be supporting closure or leaving them open? The 10pm thing is a red herring. It's like worried parents thinking sex only happens if teenagers are out late.
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I disagree - 10 pm is the issue that's being voted on, not complete closure
 
gavreid said:
Labour appears to be heading to right of Government and may join the Tory Right in voting down the Rule of 6 and 10 pm pub closure.
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Focus group Labour in action yet again. Not a ‘right’ or ‘left’ thing IMO, just an obsolete, lazy and ideologically hollow party following votes rather than science or principal.
 
Tony L said:
Focus group Labour in action yet again. Not a ‘right’ or ‘left’ thing IMO, just an obsolete, lazy and ideologically hollow party following votes rather than science or principal.
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Who you are seen to be voting with is always an issue, in this case the libertarian right.
 
gavreid said:
Labour appears to be heading to right of Government and may join the Tory Right in voting down the Rule of 6 and 10 pm pub closure. I would close pubs at 6pm to avoid the drunken scenes at 10pm or keep them shut if landlords continue to allow people to drink irresponsibly (which is illegal in itself.)

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-expected-at-votes-on-curfew-and-rule-of-six
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Are they going to vote against the rule of 6? Unless I’ve missed it that article is only about the curfew.
 
Caledon1297 said:
So, 2 Labour MPs in Scotland, rather than 1? :confused:
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I think that will change as a result of C19. I don’t see how an independent Scotland could possibly get through the economic shockwaves of C19. Oil industry on its arse, tourism decimated, UK govt jobs moved south (in the result of independence) etc etc. How on earth could they fund things like furlough? As for Plaid Cymru, it’s pure fantasy. No doubt the opposition parties will be spelling this out once the dust has settled.
 
Of course if the rule of 6 were enforceable then the pub curfew may be worth trying. I just don’t see how it’s enforceable. I suspect the government’s idea is to try the 10 pm curfew to see what happens, if it causes more problems than it creates, they’ll close pubs completely (as in Paris and Marseille) At least the drinking parties after closing time are likely to be smaller than a whole crowded pub! So it’s likely less spreading will result.

Incidence may be low enough to give them the confidence to try out these sorts of measures - everyone’s in new territory.


I’m coming to the conclusion that the Government are right to try it out.
 
Angela Raynor was interviewed on Sky News this morning. She insisted Johnson, Hancock, Sunak and the Tory Cabinet, are responsible for the UK's inadequate response to Covid-19.

Will Starmer follow up? I'll be very surprised if he does. He'll go "Of couse we support the government, but ... "

Don't bother saying you support the government, you twat. Only a moron supports Johnson.

Jack
 
Drug shortages ahead as Brexit stockpiles were tapped earlier in the year - particularly anaesthesia drugs which were used for patients on ventilation

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ages-as-brexit-stockpile-used-in-covid-crisis

Parts of the UK are now on a par with, or worse than, Paris in terms of case numbers. Differences in testing rates notwithstanding. Manchester is said to be at twice the rate per 100k.

"As infections in the Paris area rose to 270 for every 100,000 people – and as high as 500 for every 100,000 among 20- to 30-year-olds – with 36% of intensive care beds occupied by Covid-19 patients, the city’s police chief said bars must close from Tuesday."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/05/europe-struggles-to-contain-surge-of-coronavirus-cases
 
gavreid said:
Who you are seen to be voting with is always an issue, in this case the libertarian right.
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Agreed, but sadly this has been going on a very, very long time now so I don’t ecpect it to change, e.g. Brown’s “British jobs for British Workers”, Miliband’s ‘Controls on immigration’ mugs, Corbyn avoiding taking a stand on Farage’s racism and nationalism and allowing his MPs to share xenophobic platforms etc.

Far too much of Labour’s strategy seems to be based on pandering to ugly nationalist flag-wavers who are always the very first to take their masks off both here and in America. People who believe in things other than science and evidence. This is a party that clearly realises rather a lot of its voters hold deeply unpleasant views and choses to cynically pander to them to get votes rather than trying to educate, enlighten and make a strong moral argument for what is actually right. It all has far too much of the Amstrad/Ratners business model to it to my mind. I am convinced it is entirely corporate-grade focus-group strategising. It is not what I want from politics.

PS To put it another way I bet if you poll the lost ‘red wall’ seats if they want to see the pubs stay open the answer would be a resounding ‘yes’. So that’s Labour policy now!
 
Ponty said:
I think that will change as a result of C19. I don’t see how an independent Scotland could possibly get through the economic shockwaves of C19. Oil industry on its arse, tourism decimated, UK govt jobs moved south (in the result of independence) etc etc. How on earth could they fund things like furlough? As for Plaid Cymru, it’s pure fantasy. No doubt the opposition parties will be spelling this out once the dust has settled.
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They’ll be selling wind and wave energy at extortionate prices to Johnson as he tries to achieve another unachievable off-the-cuff promise.

That and renting the sub base and grouse moors to toffs should cover the deficit.

More seriously, Scotland in the EU could easily take on the role London has now in finance. Their background in engineering could be refocussed on turbines, heat pumps and other green tech. Smaller countries can change faster, especially if they went down the digital route of Estonia.

Scotland could easily become the Denmark of these islands. If Thatcher hadn't spaffed the oil revenues on unemployment and the usual syphoning off to their donors and supporters, they already would be.

I suggest Scotland agree on a divorce bill and withdrawal agreement then break that agreement in a 'limited and specific' fashion.

Stephen
 
Tony L said:
Agreed, but sadly this has been going on a very, very long time now so I don’t ecpect it to change, e.g. Brown’s “British jobs for British Workers”, Miliband’s ‘Controls on immigration’ mugs, Corbyn avoiding taking a stand on Farage’s racism and nationalism and allowing his MPs to share xenophobic platforms etc.

Far too much of Labour’s strategy seems to be based on pandering to ugly nationalist flag-wavers who are always the very first to take their masks off both here and in America. People who believe in things other than science and evidence. This is a party that clearly realises rather a lot of its voters hold deeply unpleasant views and choses to cynically pander to them to get votes rather than trying to educate, enlighten and make a strong moral argument for what is actually right. It all has far too much of the Amstrad/Ratners business model to it to my mind. I am convinced it is entirely corporate-grade focus-group strategising. It is not what I want from politics.

PS To put it another way I bet if you poll the lost ‘red wall’ seats if they want to see the pubs stay open the answer would be a resounding ‘yes’. So that’s Labour policy now!
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Actually there was an interruption to business as usual. Remember these guys?

“The Labour rebels were: Corbyn, Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, Paula Barker, Apsana Begum, Olivia Blake, Richard Burgon, Dawn Butler, Ian Byrne, Ian Lavery, Grahame Morris, Kate Osamor, Kate Osborne, Zarah Sultana, Mick Whitley, Nadia Whittome, Beth Winter plus tellers Bell Riberio-Addy and Lloyd Russell-Moyle.”

But Brexit was more important than stuff like stopping the state from torturing people with impunity I guess.

Lib Dems and SNP obviously thought so too.
 
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