SME Model 6

[I.D.C.]

Looking through pictures of the entire SME turntable line, none are even remotely attractive. So much flat black. I'm not sure why there is so much vehemence in the opposition to the cheap one, it seems to fit right in with its dreary-looking siblings.

Hopefully they all look better in person than in pictures (which is all I'm ever likely to see), and sound better than they look.

I agree with you regards design. It's when you take a much closer look you see engineering is clearly at the forefront. Then you listen and get it at least it did for me I got the 10 added two V arms and good quality catridges. Have the kind of playback I love big soundstage. The kind of detail where you hear the small subtle sounds in the back ground. The structure of the chord being played. It's not a dancing party turntable. SME take you right into the recording if a talented musician is playing you pick it up easily. Previously to the 10 I had the Orbe SE with techno tonearm from Michael which I understand is a Rega with drilled holes. It was a fantastic turntable also it could dance. SME is a cleaner sound not for all for me it's what I want from playback.

 

[Miss Ariel]

The SME logo looking at the picture looks like a sticker...probably wrong.Never disliked the styling of the rest of the range BTW.But agree with most people doesn't look like it cost 6 K...let alone £600.
Might sound sublime for all we know,but certainly doesn't give you the Wow ! factor...more like a now factor.

 

[Mr Pig]

I wonder if the plinth is made a company who make shower trays? It has that look about it, like it came out of a jelly mould.

 

[mik bhavnani]

Tom Fletcher (Nottingham Analogue) used to do that on the Mentor Reference models when the numbers of turntables he made were small, before his company took off. He used to lap each bearing in by hand, normally whilst watching Coronation Street. This was done so the two parts of the bearing were perfectly matched. If you are making in numbers, then tolerances are generally eased to meet production runs where there will always be greater margins. SME did this with the first runs of the SME V tonearm. SME soon realised that the super close tolerance bearings didn't always fit, or they were too tight, so SME ended up using the slight lower spec bearings (still very high) that were used in the SME IV. After time the SME IV and V ended up using the same bearings.

I remember Tom telling me this on a few occasions, I know this as a fact re the series V tonearms and have had many super tight bearings also soon found out that no two arms sounded exactly the same. Personally I never saw this as a negative and added to the hand assembled nature of the product. I have to say all the assemblers of turntables and tonearms always took real pride in their work. Of course production has its time limits and one could spend forever to attention to detail but a fine line has to be drawn when producing commercial products.

The 3012 was a simpler arm to build as is the M12R hence there was always greater consistency between samples. I could write books on the subject considering the vast number of sme arms I have seen over the years. The original 20 and Model 30 bearing were super tight and used to cease up in cold climates occasionally production after 2000 never had this problem again no two decks were identical just the way with most things analogue. I have to say I find this a lot with most hi end manufacture. In the end I could almost tell what a tonearm could sound like by holding it and feeling it.

 

[MikeMA]

@mik bhavnani Do you know why SME stopped selling arms separately?

 

[I.D.C.]

I remember tom telling me this on a few occasions, I know this as a fact re the series V tonearms and have had many super tight bearings also soon found out that no two arms sounded exactly the same. The 3012 was a simpler arm to build as is the M12R hence there was always greater consistency between samples I could write books on the subject considering the vast number of sme arms I have seen over the years. The original 20 and Model 30 bearing were super tight and used to cease up in cold climates again no two decks were identical just the way with most things analogue.

I went for the Model 20. First its smarter than the 10 to my eyes. So the dealer recommended the 10 but upgrade the arm to V then you will be 5% away from the 20. I had to hear this for myself so auditioned both. My dealer was right the decks were very close but the 20 was more expensive. You can probably tell I'm a fan of SME. Wait till we hear how it sounds. However I'm with all who say it looks budget. SHOCK!

 

[mik bhavnani]

@mik bhavnani Do you know why SME stopped selling arms separately?

From what I know that after financial reveiw Sme never found the tonearms financially viable, the original prices were too low in terms of production time and one could not continue to increase prices unless one came up with new product this is easier said than done.

For years Sme was not making much money to be honest with big investment in machinery and tooling and a reasonable sized workforce, the products just became too expensive to manufacture. In reality were bargains compared to the competition how many products offered the fit and finish and build of an Sme how many offered the packaging of an Sme and the after sales support this all costs. I now look at what's available on the market and the prices charged I have had and have quite a few super tonearms in my hands 15k plus the most expensive being 50k do they offer more in terms of overall quality, do they offer better attention to detail and finish, in reality not really. One could could sit here and argue about sound all day that's another subject.

I have to say some of the Japanese arms such as ikeda and glanz do represent fine value too with the lower down models, I just received the new stainless steel Ikeda 407ss and its a fine thing not cheap at 15k as the the latest SAEC at 13k. I will stick my my neck out Sme's were cheap for what they were. Sme produced tonearms that audiophiles could really aspire to own they were real world products and gave absolute confidence that the company would be there to support them. Saying that I am glad that products like Reed exit too they also offer fine value for money with arms arms like the 3p, I have the 5T and even at £14250 does offer a lot compared to the competition.

I remember ARA telling me in 2001 that if he never produced the instruction manual for the series V in 1986 at launch it would have not been commercially viable later. At the end of the day its a business and everything costs one has to weigh up does it work or does it not obviously the new owner saw that it was a difficult one.

 

[MikeMA]

From what I know that after financial reveiw Sme never found the tonearms financially viable, the original prices were too low in terms of production time and one could not continue to increase prices unless one came up with new product this is easier said than done.

For years Sme was not making much money to be honest with big investment in machinery and tooling and a reasonable sized workforce the products just became too expensive to manufacture in in reality were bargains compared to the competition how many products offered the fit and finish and build of an Sme how many offered the packaging of an Sme and the after sales support this all costs. I now look at what's available on the market and the prices charged I have had and have quite a few super tonearms in my hands 15k plus the most expensive being 50k do they offer in terms of overall quality, detail and finish any more in reality not really. One could could sit here and argue about sound all day that's another subject. I have to say some of the Japanese arms such as ikeda and glanz do represent fine value too I just received the new stainless steel Ikeda 407ss and its a fine thing not cheap at 15k as the the latest SAEC at 13k. I will stick my my neck out Sme's were cheap for what they were.

I remember ARA telling me in 2001 that if he never produced the instruction manual for the series V in 1986 at launch it would have not been commercially viable later. At the end of the day its a business and everything costs one has to weigh up does it work or does it not obviously the new owner saw that it was a difficult one.

Thanks Mik, that's very interesting and a bit of an eye-opener!

 

[GT]

I have to say some of the Japanese arms such as ikeda and glanz do represent fine value too with the lower down models, I just received the new stainless steel Ikeda 407ss and its a fine thing not cheap at 15k as the the latest SAEC at 13k. I will stick my my neck out Sme's were cheap for what they were. Sme produced tonearms that audiophiles could really aspire to own they were real world products and gave absolute confidence that the company would be there to support them. Saying that I am glad that products like Reed exit too they also offer fine value for money with arms arms like the 3p, I have the 5T and even at £14250 does offer a lot compared to the competition.

I remember ARA telling me in 2001 that if he never produced the instruction manual for the series V in 1986 at launch it would have not been commercially viable later. At the end of the day its a business and everything costs one has to weigh up does it work or does it not obviously the new owner saw that it was a difficult one.

Great write up Mik.

I imported a few Reed tonearms about 10 years ago when they started out and found them to be really disappointing sound wise. They looked good from a distance but when you inspected them closely you could see they were not up to the standard that you would get with an SME, a Graham Phantom or a TW tonearm, plus they had a number of design faults. I had several Skype calls with them to address these issues but nothing came of it. I ended up selling them off at a reduced price as I really "hand on heart" couldn't get behind them as they were nowhere near as good as my established references at the time, a Graham Phantom Supreme or a TW 10.5 tonearm. The TW 10.5 totally annihilated both Reeds and the Phantom and I still use one today. I even spoke to Frank Schroder about Reed as he really pioneered the use of wood again in modern tonearm design and he just smiled and mentioned a few technical things as to why the Reeds sounded the way they did. I also had a couple of 12" Ikedas and although nicely made, apart from the sticky bearings, the geometry was never great and these were always a big compromise getting the cartridge correctly aligned. Plus these are only really suited to heavy weight cartridges 20-30 grams in weight. I have only experienced 2 tonearms that I would want to own, or use myself in my own personal system. One is made in Germany and the other in Switzerland. I think you can guess what these are?

Although people often say to me there has never been a better time to buy a top flight turntable and tonearm due to the vinyl resurgence. I am not so sure, as the vinyl resurgence ended for me back in 2010. If you look around today there are a lot of "companies" advertising high end turntables. But do they sound any good and the people designing and building them would they know what was good or bad? I know as I have been designing analogue products and phono stages since most manufacturers decreed the turntable dead and buried back in the late 1980s, so it makes me wonder how some companies can basically bypass 30 years of work and development. I guess with the right marketing you can say anything. Proving it is a little more difficult...

 

[Yank]

Although people often say to me there has never been a better time to buy a top flight turntable and tonearm due to the vinyl resurgence. I am not so sure, as the vinyl resurgence ended for me back in 2010. If you look around today there are a lot of "companies" advertising high end turntables. But do they sound any good and the people designing and building them would they know what was good or bad? I know as I have been designing analogue products and phono stages since most manufacturers decreed the turntable dead and buried back in the late 1980s, so it makes me wonder how some companies can basically bypass 30 years of work and development. I guess with the right marketing you can say anything. Proving it is a little more difficult...

Seems to me like a lot of the "costs-as-much-as-a-car" turntables' main design philosophy is to look blingy in photos from the Munich audio show.

 

[Woodface]

I am pretty amazed at the talk of £15k tone arms. That is nuts, it’s what helps kill the hobby for me.

I just don’t understand

 

[GT]

Seems to me like a lot of the "costs-as-much-as-a-car" turntables' main design philosophy is to look blingy in photos from the Munich audio show.

I would agree with that. Its just company willy waving...

 

[Stuart Frazer]

I am pretty amazed at the talk of £15k tone arms. That is nuts, it’s what helps kill the hobby for me.

I just don’t understand

It's no different from Supercars, Fine Dine Restaurants, Fine Wine, High End Fashion etc. You don't have to buy it. I don't see how these products will kill a hobby, when 99.999999% of vinyl audiophiles will not buy them anyway.

 

[Tony L]

I must admit I like it however, from the pictures, it appears that the SME arm on the SME turntable is not using the traditional SME mounting with a sliding bedplate. Given the headshell has holes, not slots, I wonder how you align the cartridge?

That is bizarre! It is pretty clearly missing in the pictures later in the thread. I can only assume it has a far smaller range of travel, just a mm or two, which is all it needs if mounted in exactly the right place. The normal SME mount does have a heck of a lot of movement when really I’ve never seen more than 3mm or so difference in mount to stylus tip.

Just for clarity here’s a stock M2, this one is actually a 10 rather than a 9, but it clearly shows the classic sliding bedplate. A great arm IMO.

 

[Barrymagrec]

I wonder if the plinth is made a company who make shower trays? It has that look about it, like it came out of a jelly mould.

But you get a really nice matching model train controller to go with it.

 

[Woodface]

It's no different from Supercars, Fine Dine Restaurants, Fine Wine, High End Fashion etc. You don't have to buy it. I don't see how these products will kill a hobby, when 99.999999% of vinyl audiophiles will not buy them anyway.

If you re-read what I said I used the phrase ‘for me’. I personally find such nonsense off putting.

 

[Stuart Frazer]

If you re-read what I said I used the phrase ‘for me’. I personally find such nonsense off putting.

I comprehended you 1st time. Why do you find it off-putting? There are loads of similar examples scattered throughout life and the world. Just ignore them, you don't have to buy.

 

[Woodface]

I comprehended you 1st time. Why do you find it off-putting? There are loads of similar examples scattered throughout life and the world. Just ignore them, you don't have to buy.

I can only speak for myself, ultra high end audio is just a blatant show of gaudy wealth which is never a good look.

I don’t see how it’s justified by quoting other examples of ostentation.

 

[Stuart Frazer]

I can only speak for myself, ultra high end audio is just a blatant show of gaudy wealth which is never a good look.

I don’t see how it’s justified by quoting other examples of ostentation.

Having a £15k tonearm in your system as opposed to driving around in a £150,000 car is far less ostentatious!

 

[Woodface]

Having a £15k tonearm in your system as opposed to driving around in a £150,000 car is far less ostentatious!

If you say so.

What happens if you have both?