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New system - the ongoing saga

Folkman said:
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Or room treatment !
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Yes it's always better to treat the source of the problems instead of the symptoms. But of course fixing bass issues in a living room using room treatment is not always acceptable. If there is a dedicated listening room however, this should be the preferred approach.
 
Chefren said:
Yes it's always better to treat the source of the problems instead of the symptoms. But of course fixing bass issues in a living room using room treatment is not always acceptable. If there is a dedicated listening room however, this should be the preferred approach.
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Exactly, it's going to be even more minimalist when I have finished with lots of glass so should be fun;)
 
tiggers said:
No, it's concrete floor/solid walls. I think it's something to do with the dimensions - 8m x 5.5m but with lowish ceiling 2.35m. The only speakers that thus far sound OK are Naim Allaes and Neat Motive SX2s, but it's still noticeable at higher volumes. Did think it was the electronics (Naim 202/200) so transplanted my entire active system into the room (52/135s)... still didn't work too well. It needs room correction.
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Perhaps try entering your room’s dimensions into an online room mode calculator,
https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
This will give you a pretty good idea of the problem frequencies.
Passive acoustic treatment isn’t very effective for low bass unless you enjoy rockwool.
Keith
 
In a single source system like that, I would try something like a DSPeaker-Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core plugged into the digital output of the cd-player and have it working as a DAC + room correction. Then take the signal from the DSPeaker's analogue outs to your preamp. I'm recommending it because in my concrete bunker of a listening room, it does a pretty good job with the bass frequencies. The sound was slightly improved with a Teddy Pardo PSU however, but then that again adds two small boxes to the system and the minimalist target starts to slip away.

I have never tried the DSPeaker X4, only heard it at a show once, but this is a pre with built-in DACs and room correction and it looks pretty good. Of course some other manufacturers have options too.

One thing I would question in these kinds of setups though is why bother with a high-end player like the Mohican if you will bypass it's DAC and analogue circuitry anyway. And if you use the player's analogue outs, you are adding an extra D/A + A/D conversion to the signal chain which is also not perfect.
 
Chops54 said:
The SHD is a great piece of kit. It's just a shame it's so damned expensive :eek:
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Really? Have you seen the price of, say a Naim 282 and a couple of HiCaps?

I abandoned analogue preamps when I ended up with a single source system, so I didn't need source switching, and analogue volume controls all seem to have a sonic signature, that (well implemented) digital attenuators don't seem to have.

I don't have an SHD yet, but we are seriously considering the idea, as it would replace our RPi (source) MDAC (dac/preamp) and MiniDSP Balanced (DSP for bass and electronic x-over) in one box. The ridiculous reason why we have not bought one (apart from money, as wife has just retired / gone solo, and I'm on the sick) is the fact it's a wide case style, and our lovely rack is MDAC size.

I have miniDSP in two systems now and I think they are as transparent in use as anything I have encountered and DSP is the biggest upgrade you will ever make - get the room sorted first.
 
I sell DSPeaker as well as the top tier MiniDSP products. The DSPeaker X4 would be a good option here and also has the advantage of a shallower learning curve. However, the Dual Core 2.0 is somewhat outclassed by the other components being considered for this system, so even though I like that product a lot, I probably would not recommend it here.
 
Jem, whilst the SHD is a very versatile piece of kit I certainly don't think it's cheap at 1600 quid. I'd still think it was overpriced if it came in at a grand!
 
Thanks for all the replies, I have a lot to ingest. Trouble is I want the best of all world's, analogue room correction ;)
 
tiggers said:
Thanks for all the replies, I have a lot to ingest. Trouble is I want the best of all world's, analogue room correction
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Sorry if I missed it, but have you looked into room treatment like bass traps and the like? I.e. fix the room as much as possible before trying to compensate for it in the digital realm.
 
tiggers said:
Thanks for all the replies, I have a lot to ingest. Trouble is I want the best of all world's, analogue room correction ;)
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I can certainly understand your reluctance to add digital processing to an otherwise perfectly good analogue playback chain. However, with the right processor there is no practical downside to doing this. The benefits massively outweigh the theoretical downsides. Theoretically, each AD or DA conversion step adds a tiny amount of noise, but with the better processors this is so small as to be inaudible. The extra noise can only really be detected with very sensitive instrumentation or by looping a signal through the converters dozens of times. Performing signal processing with the same precision in the analogue domain would require a much larger and more costly "box" (more likely a room full of boxes) and would certainly add a lot more noise to the output.

I took a turntable to the North West Audio Show precisely because I knew that it would raise a few eyebrows (but also start a few conversations).
 
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I actually tried to find if there were any fully parametric analogue equalisators around before buying the DSPeaker for this same purpose. My thought was to measure the room with REW and then use the EQ to correct the most obvious peaks. But I came up short, the closest thing I found was this, but it was no longer available and the manufacturer appeared defunct: https://www.stereophile.com/roomtreatments/883/index.html

One option that might be interesting is to use an active subwoofer and use DRC only on that.
 
@tiggers i have been going through the same process as you and had the ATC40A's on home demo. very impressive, dynamic and even handed. Being sealed box they can sit close to walls
As Keith will no doubt echo i would buy a Umik-1 and measure your room with REW software. It will tell you what you are dealing with.
if you are CD only and the boom is mild and confined to a few low frequencies perhaps consider a CD transport feeding a RME ADI 2 DAC / pre . It has paramatric EQ to improve the bass boom and works well as a pre straight into the ATC's. you would have £5k left over too
 
Roon also has built in parametric EQ, it can be invaluable, for analogue sources I use the RME ADI-pro, A/D/D/A and it can send a digital signal to the 8Cs and attenuate it, extremely versatile.
Keith
 
Could you try something like a Schiit Loki and possibly 'luck out' and hit the right frequencies for desired effect? Cheap easy option.
 
The bands in the Loki are Bands: 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 8kHz - it is very unlikely that any of those are correct and the settings are probably far too broadband too to be useful for room correction anyway.

The needed frequencies can be estimated quite well based on room measurements (with a tape measure, not acoustic measurements) unless your room is an odd shape, but a product such as the Loki is intended for other uses, not to cancel out bass modes in a room.
 
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