Lyngdorf TDAi-2170
- Thread starter Ian G
- Start date
Amber Audio
This is the Day
I had a 2170, added the 2400 power amp and then upgraded the 2170 to the 3400. I kept the 2400 power but am not using it currently as I feel the 3400 is powerful enough to drive my Martin Logans properly. They are fully digital amps and use PWM and upsample/downsample all signals to 96K before processing via their RC algorithm, it’s very interesting tech and worth a scour round their support site and YouTube.
Had a Naim 500 rig before moving to Lyngdorf, several reasons for reducing box count, ill health being main one, if I shuffled it would have saved Mrs AA trying to sell a bunch of black boxes and workIng out which weird cable goes with what box. I didn’t miss the Naim though even after the usual new toy honeymoon period, hence going for the new 3400. The 2170 and RC was a bit of a wow moment cos I couldn’t get either of my floor-standers to work in our new bungalows lounge (stairs were a no go by then), Kef 205 & BW 804, with RC I still wasn’t mad keen on the 804 but the 205’s were ace sounding, just like when they were in the old house which had a dedicated room, totally fixed the bass booming and improved the soundstage a bit too.
I actually regretted moving the 300 on for a 500, should have been a big jump but it wasn’t like that and I felt disappointed, I’d most probably have have gone back to a 300 if I hadn’t got ill, looking back the 282/300/Dual TCap was the sweet spot for me amp wise. The Lyngdorf is just as enjoyable as the Naim, might be different if you have a very big room, the Lyngdorf amps do have a fair amount of welly though.
You don’t hear a great deal of feedback about Lyngdorf Hi Fi in the UK, good bit of buzz on AV Forums about their home cinema stuff but less so their Hi Fi gear.
RP is fantastic and really does work well, there is a bypass function so you can easily swap between no RC and Focus (single person) and Global (spreads the sweet spot). The 3400 has a network connection so it can be controlled from an App and a Streamer board built in, ROON Ready. You can add 3 modules to the 2170, the 3400 has USB already, so only takes 2. A RIAA phono board has recently been released. The other boards are HDMI and Analogue unbalanced RCA/balanced XLR.
If you can get a home loan for a week or two it is an amp seriously worth considering.
HTH
Gus
Had a Naim 500 rig before moving to Lyngdorf, several reasons for reducing box count, ill health being main one, if I shuffled it would have saved Mrs AA trying to sell a bunch of black boxes and workIng out which weird cable goes with what box. I didn’t miss the Naim though even after the usual new toy honeymoon period, hence going for the new 3400. The 2170 and RC was a bit of a wow moment cos I couldn’t get either of my floor-standers to work in our new bungalows lounge (stairs were a no go by then), Kef 205 & BW 804, with RC I still wasn’t mad keen on the 804 but the 205’s were ace sounding, just like when they were in the old house which had a dedicated room, totally fixed the bass booming and improved the soundstage a bit too.
I actually regretted moving the 300 on for a 500, should have been a big jump but it wasn’t like that and I felt disappointed, I’d most probably have have gone back to a 300 if I hadn’t got ill, looking back the 282/300/Dual TCap was the sweet spot for me amp wise. The Lyngdorf is just as enjoyable as the Naim, might be different if you have a very big room, the Lyngdorf amps do have a fair amount of welly though.
You don’t hear a great deal of feedback about Lyngdorf Hi Fi in the UK, good bit of buzz on AV Forums about their home cinema stuff but less so their Hi Fi gear.
RP is fantastic and really does work well, there is a bypass function so you can easily swap between no RC and Focus (single person) and Global (spreads the sweet spot). The 3400 has a network connection so it can be controlled from an App and a Streamer board built in, ROON Ready. You can add 3 modules to the 2170, the 3400 has USB already, so only takes 2. A RIAA phono board has recently been released. The other boards are HDMI and Analogue unbalanced RCA/balanced XLR.
If you can get a home loan for a week or two it is an amp seriously worth considering.
HTH
Gus
pocketkitchen
Registered User
Yep, I used to set up the RoomPerfect system a lot at various dealers, years ago. It was the most advanced of its time and could work very well. It's very flexible as you can choose the range it works over and decide how focussed on one position you want it to be. If the room was basically good sounding it could sometimes make things worse if you tried to correct the whole frequency range, so I tended to just correct below, say, 100hz, so large bass anomalies were dealt with. Then it would work well. If the room was a dog and nothing ever sounded good (a lot of dealers' demo rooms) then it was brilliant and got about as close to polishing a turd as it's possible to get. However, even with RP swirched off, they're very very good amps that are well worth an audition.
Shuggie
Trade: Ammonite Audio
You have to hear it in your own room with your own speakers to get a feel for what it does. Room perfect does precisely what Lyngdorf promise, without requiring any in depth technical knowledge from you, so no target curves or anything like that. Roomperfect hides its cleverness very effectively.
Mongeddavid
pfm Member
I have had a room perfect system for a while RP1. It does improve focus, soundstage stability and improves the bass response to something cleaner tighter , better defined. There is a trade off however at least in my experience. Top end air is reduced the palpability of vocals is also comparatively restricted and the general timbre was not as good as with my current DAC in the system. Its not massive and the improvements may well be worth the trade off for some people. If you go for the integrated rp and amp package things may be different. Ultimately I changed speakers and no longer required the system ,had my wife not lost her job I would probably have kept it as its a very handy tool to have. Its certainly something I would consider revisiting at a later date.
simon g
Older, wiser but no longer retired
On the Lyngdorf front; their new model will be with us shortly - the TDAI-1120. It has lower power, but does have room perfect and the streaming functionality of the 3400. Price is a competitive £2K. I may well give one a try, having had a 2200i, SDAi2175 and a 2170. As an amplifier, the 2200i was probably the best of the bunch.
Cereal Killer
432
I owned a fully loaded TDAi2170 12 years ago, partnered it with WB arcs - didn’t really like
It. I personally found the Supernait 1 with HiCap better.
It. I personally found the Supernait 1 with HiCap better.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
I don't think you will. Given the complex nature of that kind of system, the sort of comparative review that What Hifi or Hifi Choice would once have published would be wholly inadequate. There's also the fact that an informed decision in something like this can really only be assessed properly in the intended listeners system over a week or two. The Lyngdorf system has lots of different choices in terms of cut off points etc and can even apply its own crossover filters to sub sat systems, for example, if I remember correctly. Even a one off review would have to be several thousand words to be worthwhile.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
The 2170 came out 6 years back, you maybe mean the older 2175 - ran a previous version of RP, I think the amp is more or less the same. I bought a Naim SN2 as a downsize from my 500 system but after hearing the 2170 in Edinburgh during a demo of some streamers, I sold the SN2 on less than 2 weeks later and bought the 2170. Which amp I think best is obviously dependent on speakers/room/my listening prefs.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
I think the Lyngdorf being able to fully RC and handle Subs and a pair of Stereo Subs is one of the USPs, they definitely push their idea of boundary woofers - 2 subs placed front left/right and back left/right, lots of discussion over on AVForum about this in detail goes on. The new amps have very flexible “voicing curve” options, kinda like super tone controls I guess, there are numerous fairly subtle presets which do make a difference to enjoying the music, a couple of LPs I have sound a lot nicer using a voicing that boosts the lower end. You can config your own custom voicings too.
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
Some insight on Lyngdorf Audio’s RoomPerfect – The World’s Best Room Correction -
The sound of your speaker will be dramatically changed by the acoustics of your room. Measuring and correcting your speakers and your room is the only way to remove these errors, so you can enjoy your music and films at their best.
There are many room correction systems available, all of which follow the same process. A microphone is placed at the listening position and a measurements is taken. This process is repeated across more seating positions and then the sound of the system is changed to try and match a predetermined response.
These systems can reduce acoustic problems, but all of them change the sound of a good speaker.
RoomPerfect Origins -
In 1993 Peter Lyngdorf released the world’s first full range, digital room correction, designed for use with the highest fidelity music systems. While the system removed the worst errors that the room created, results were inconsistent results and the system changed the characteristics of the speakers used.
At the heart of the problem was the measurement process. By measuring the system with a microphone firing at the ceiling, the sound captured has already been corrupted by the room. This method cannot capture the characteristic of the speakers and so could only change the system to match a generic “good sound”.
A New Approach to Sound Measurement -
Audiophiles spent great care choosing speakers and wanted their sound preserved rather than changed by the electronics used. The flaws in Lyngdorfs first correction system led to a new method of measuring the speakers and the listening room.
RoomPerfect starts by firing the mic towards the front speakers. This captures the characteristics of your speakers with the unique additions of your listening room. This allows the systems to create a target curve that’s unique to your speakers and your room.
Additional measurements are taken across the full height, width and length of the room. The problems created by the room are a three-dimensional issue and only by capturing the sound throughout the whole room can its effect be completely understood and reliably corrected.
Bass Management -
At the time RoomPerfect was being developed, subwoofers were becoming more popular and often the subs in the systems didn’t perfectly integrate with the rest of the speakers. This led to another unique feature of RoomPerfect, the measurement and correction of the speakers and the subwoofers together. With the correct time alignment, RoomPerfect ensures the sound of your speakers and subs play “as one” so compact speakers can provide convincing, full range sound.
Stereo Bass -
Where two subwoofers can be placed in the front corners of the room, true stereo bass is achieved. In surround systems, the bass from the left-hand subwoofer will be perfectly integrated with all the speakers on the left of the room. With the same quality of bass playing through all your speakers the most natural enveloping sound is achieved around and above the listener.
Optimal Timing -
Placing woofers in the front corners of the room is the only position that can ensure the best timing from your subs. It’s only these positions that ensure all the energy they produce arrives at the listening position at the same time. Try listening to some drumming or any content with good transients and you’ll immediately hear the benefits.
RoomPerfect, Features & Benefits -
• The only correction system to preserve the sound of your speakers
• The only system to combine the performance of your speakers and subs
• Unique in giving best results in normal rooms without room treatment
• Unique in giving consistent results throughout the whole room
• Simple and reliable to use
In 2006 RoomPerfect was protected by one of the largest patents in audio history covering the 54 unique elements in its process.
Unlike most products containing room correction, Lyngdorf products have all been designed for use in the highest fidelity music systems. They are silent, fan free products, that won’t add noise to the signal path.
The sound of your speaker will be dramatically changed by the acoustics of your room. Measuring and correcting your speakers and your room is the only way to remove these errors, so you can enjoy your music and films at their best.
There are many room correction systems available, all of which follow the same process. A microphone is placed at the listening position and a measurements is taken. This process is repeated across more seating positions and then the sound of the system is changed to try and match a predetermined response.
These systems can reduce acoustic problems, but all of them change the sound of a good speaker.
RoomPerfect Origins -
In 1993 Peter Lyngdorf released the world’s first full range, digital room correction, designed for use with the highest fidelity music systems. While the system removed the worst errors that the room created, results were inconsistent results and the system changed the characteristics of the speakers used.
At the heart of the problem was the measurement process. By measuring the system with a microphone firing at the ceiling, the sound captured has already been corrupted by the room. This method cannot capture the characteristic of the speakers and so could only change the system to match a generic “good sound”.
A New Approach to Sound Measurement -
Audiophiles spent great care choosing speakers and wanted their sound preserved rather than changed by the electronics used. The flaws in Lyngdorfs first correction system led to a new method of measuring the speakers and the listening room.
RoomPerfect starts by firing the mic towards the front speakers. This captures the characteristics of your speakers with the unique additions of your listening room. This allows the systems to create a target curve that’s unique to your speakers and your room.
Additional measurements are taken across the full height, width and length of the room. The problems created by the room are a three-dimensional issue and only by capturing the sound throughout the whole room can its effect be completely understood and reliably corrected.
Bass Management -
At the time RoomPerfect was being developed, subwoofers were becoming more popular and often the subs in the systems didn’t perfectly integrate with the rest of the speakers. This led to another unique feature of RoomPerfect, the measurement and correction of the speakers and the subwoofers together. With the correct time alignment, RoomPerfect ensures the sound of your speakers and subs play “as one” so compact speakers can provide convincing, full range sound.
Stereo Bass -
Where two subwoofers can be placed in the front corners of the room, true stereo bass is achieved. In surround systems, the bass from the left-hand subwoofer will be perfectly integrated with all the speakers on the left of the room. With the same quality of bass playing through all your speakers the most natural enveloping sound is achieved around and above the listener.
Optimal Timing -
Placing woofers in the front corners of the room is the only position that can ensure the best timing from your subs. It’s only these positions that ensure all the energy they produce arrives at the listening position at the same time. Try listening to some drumming or any content with good transients and you’ll immediately hear the benefits.
RoomPerfect, Features & Benefits -
• The only correction system to preserve the sound of your speakers
• The only system to combine the performance of your speakers and subs
• Unique in giving best results in normal rooms without room treatment
• Unique in giving consistent results throughout the whole room
• Simple and reliable to use
In 2006 RoomPerfect was protected by one of the largest patents in audio history covering the 54 unique elements in its process.
Unlike most products containing room correction, Lyngdorf products have all been designed for use in the highest fidelity music systems. They are silent, fan free products, that won’t add noise to the signal path.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Amir over at ASR reviewed the ‘room perfect’ software,
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-lyngdorf-roomperfect-eq.6799/
Keith
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-lyngdorf-roomperfect-eq.6799/
Keith
Amber Audio
This is the Day
I read their normal review which was negative and panned it for poor measurements so was surprised with this conclusion about RP in the later part 2 of that review as it is very positive.
Conclusions
As I had expected and hoped, the Lyngdorf RoomPerfect does a wonderful job of correcting the impact of the room, especially in low frequencies. Without correction, every system out there regardless of price of components, suffers from significant audible colorations and loss of detail and focus. No, you can't do the same with room treatment. Even the best treated room requires equalization. Over treating the room to get rid of the modes will create a dull/dead which you want to avoid.
The all-one-one aspect of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 showed its value in how it obsolete nearly $70,000 in gear in my room. Integration with Roon player (i.e. streaming) does it for me. Get yourself a pair of excellent speakers and pair it with the Lyngdorf and "you are done." Your tiny system will outperform tons of other systems without equalization.
Note that similar results could be had with other well implemented equalization system. While performance of RoomPerfect was excellent, it didn't do anything other good systems do. So I will be going to my Dirac system and more powerful amplification. But for someone starting fresh and aiming high, the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics.
Overall I am happy to give a recommendation for Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. Its room equalization is a joy to use and makes a fantastic difference to your listening experience.
Conclusions
As I had expected and hoped, the Lyngdorf RoomPerfect does a wonderful job of correcting the impact of the room, especially in low frequencies. Without correction, every system out there regardless of price of components, suffers from significant audible colorations and loss of detail and focus. No, you can't do the same with room treatment. Even the best treated room requires equalization. Over treating the room to get rid of the modes will create a dull/dead which you want to avoid.
The all-one-one aspect of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 showed its value in how it obsolete nearly $70,000 in gear in my room. Integration with Roon player (i.e. streaming) does it for me. Get yourself a pair of excellent speakers and pair it with the Lyngdorf and "you are done." Your tiny system will outperform tons of other systems without equalization.
Note that similar results could be had with other well implemented equalization system. While performance of RoomPerfect was excellent, it didn't do anything other good systems do. So I will be going to my Dirac system and more powerful amplification. But for someone starting fresh and aiming high, the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics.
Overall I am happy to give a recommendation for Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. Its room equalization is a joy to use and makes a fantastic difference to your listening experience.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
This is the bit they discussed a lot on the other forums, seemed to be a different approach to other RC systems like DIRAC/Audyssey/TRINNOV
Stereo Bass -
Where two subwoofers can be placed in the front corners of the room, true stereo bass is achieved. In surround systems, the bass from the left-hand subwoofer will be perfectly integrated with all the speakers on the left of the room. With the same quality of bass playing through all your speakers the most natural enveloping sound is achieved around and above the listener.
Where two subwoofers can be placed in the front corners of the room, true stereo bass is achieved. In surround systems, the bass from the left-hand subwoofer will be perfectly integrated with all the speakers on the left of the room. With the same quality of bass playing through all your speakers the most natural enveloping sound is achieved around and above the listener.
I had a 2170 for a bit.
Whilst I found the room perfect very impressive initially, I found that over time it also seemed to negatively affect my enjoyment of the music. Never did end up putting my finger on exactly what I was missing, but I did ended up switching it off and my room is far from optimum.
Strangely if I did use it I always preferred the global setting to focus. Feeling it to give a fuller sound.
The amp itself was very clean sounding but I much preferred the sound of a class A power amp I also had.
In the end then I was just using it as a pre/dac which seemed wasteful, particularly when it had all the option boards fitted. So I replaced it with a lindemann musicbook, as a better match to my needs at that time.
Only thing I miss about it in all honesty was spinning the big volume knob
Whilst I found the room perfect very impressive initially, I found that over time it also seemed to negatively affect my enjoyment of the music. Never did end up putting my finger on exactly what I was missing, but I did ended up switching it off and my room is far from optimum.
Strangely if I did use it I always preferred the global setting to focus. Feeling it to give a fuller sound.
The amp itself was very clean sounding but I much preferred the sound of a class A power amp I also had.
In the end then I was just using it as a pre/dac which seemed wasteful, particularly when it had all the option boards fitted. So I replaced it with a lindemann musicbook, as a better match to my needs at that time.
Only thing I miss about it in all honesty was spinning the big volume knob
Cereal Killer
432
Yes sorry my bad, it was the TDAi 2200 with ADC/DAC/RP options.
Space is the Place
pfm Member
Same as above, Lyngdorf amps and Room perfect are interesting, very controlled and clean, but ultimately some of life disappears from the music leaving the the experience less enjoyable, when switching back to an analog amp some of life returns.