Frequent Virgin internet drop-outs; security risk during banking?

[Mike Reed]

For the last few months, and especially since Virgin allowed unlimited access, internet drops out about 3 x per week (that we experience) on average.

I've been caught before whilst logged into my bank and today I was logged in to NS&I when it crashed. There's no recourse but to return to desk-top and I imagine that auto log-out is enacted in times like these.

I'm a computer numpty, so this does worry me a wee bit; should it? It's a p.i.t.a., regardless.

 

[garyi]

There is no risk to online banking.

The drop outs arnt handy though have you been onto them?

 

[paulfromcamden]

Should be no risk as the session with the server will just time out. Access is dependant on the unique session created between the client (you) and server. It's not like you're leaving the front door open for a bit so anyone can just pop in and help themselves - only your client can access that session.

 

[Mike Reed]

There is no risk to online banking.

The drop outs arn't handy though; have you been onto them?

Thanks Gary and Paul. I couldn't believe there'd be a risk as this scenario would be built into secure web design, but nice to have confirmation. It's even more of a p.i.t.a. to contact them than to just wait for reconnection.

Should be no risk as the session with the server will just time out.

 

[2ManyBoxes]

Mike,
If you've decided that on-line banking is worth the risk then that number of drop outs doesn't increase that risk by any significant margin. You don't say who you bank with but if it's one of the big ones then they'll have tested that the software handles drop outs.

The idea of the transaction is a very long established concept in computing, that you don't make changes permanently on the database until the very end. Even if there is a problem with making the very last change to the database then it should still be possible to roll back all the changes to where you started.

Having said all that, I personally don't use internet banking as I think the idea of opening my bank account to every snot-nosed nerd or criminal organisation around the world to exploit the latest hole in Windows software is a good idea. I've never used it and I've never even set a password.

I use telephone banking instead which they are trying to make more and more awkward and time-consuming to force me into the much cheaper to operate internet banking. So far I've resisted, though it is a PITA.

I'm lucky that the whole estate I live on is wired up for Virgin Media fibre-optic broadband. 3 drop outs a week is more than I get but historically it's not very many.

How is your country estate wired to the internet? I've dealt with people before who've been right out in the sticks and who've had to get their broadband via an aerial and microwave transmissions from a nearby town, which only works by line of sight.

 

[Darth Vader]

It really depends on what is meant by "internet drops out". It may mean that the Virgin/BT network does have a glitch/maintenance work or maybe its local WiFi interference from PC to router. I recommend that you use the 5GHz band rather than the 2.4GHz as that latter is more prone to interference due to that radio band given out for many other devices as well as WiFi. Your microwave cooker for example works in the 2.4 GHz band.

I'll play Devils Advocate here and say that if the outage is due to a WiFi to router glitch then its entirely possible to then make a man-in-the-middle network attack and steal info including logon details. I have the ability to do this using a network penetration tool although this sort of attack would normally take place away from home in places such as a coffee shop etc where people are sharing a WiFi hot spot. A man-in-the-middle attack gets around the encryption used from PC client to a network host and presents the hacker with plain text log on IDs and passwords. Its highly unlikely to happen at home unless some spooks are after you but beware banking etc away from home especially where there are people sitting down with laptops.

Here is some bed time reading if the above is news to you https://www.csoonline.com/article/3...itm-attacks-work-and-how-to-prevent-them.html

Cheers,

DV

 

[gintonic]

I'll play Devils Advocate here and say that if the outage is due to a WiFi to router glitch then its entirely possible to then make a man-in-the-middle network attack and steal info including logon details.

I teach our students how to do that and more on our CyberSec modules

 

[Mike Reed]

I use telephone banking instead

It really depends on what is meant by "internet drops out".

Thanks, both, but I cannot see a reversion to physically travelling to one of the few banks/branches existing; really don't remember how I coped when that was the only option (by post in some circumstances, I remember; ye gods !!!!). Barclays, which I recently phoned, decided I should have a phone pin as well as a pin sentry (or rather, when that fails, which is rare). I can't see how phone banking is any safer than internet banking, as two of my savings companies now phone to authenticate my internet access anyway.

An example, Julian, of how phone banking is a no-no currently, is NS&I's unprecedented rates and the only way to transact efficiently is by internet. Moving matured accounts around or whatever is a real drag but essential. Oddly, Kent Reliance can transact on the phone with little more than a couple of questions; this security seems to be at odds with their internet security but ho hum; these financial companies purport to be safe and presumably carry the can if not.

Lewis, I'm afraid I don't understand your 5 or 2.4 GHz comments and have no idea if implementation is worthwhile or indeed possible. My wife is on wifi downstairs; I'm on the router/desk-top upstairs. these random cessations of internet access affect both of us concurrently.

I really can't be the only person suffering this very rare lapse of access during a logged-in transaction.

 

[Amber Audio]

On a router if you login to it there is a status page, it will show you when the router was last powered off/on and when the broadband feed last dropped, something like router 200 hours and broadband 199+ hours means no drops if the broadband shows a lower figure it's dropping, if much lower there is a fair chance it is dropped more than once since power on. There should be connection logs too but the above should be visible on the Virgin backend to their tech and give you grounds to get a support incident opened.

 

[Mike Reed]

Thanks, Amber, but I don't understand any of that. Wouldn't know how to log -in to a router; it's a slim device in a dark place under my shelf which displays 5 blue lights; one flashes occasionally and another always. It's simply Virgin b/b disconnecting periodically; has happened on the odd occasion for years, but much more frequently these past few months. It's simply an irritant as it comes back again after 10, 15 or even 30 minutes. I feel that it's connected to local usage increase and CV19's effects on increased residency. Whether there was a security aspect when this coincided with financial logging in was the crux of the enquiry.

 

[Amber Audio]

Well it’s unlikely but not impossible. The more time you spend online, the more random sites you visit, the more chance of getting a nasty or being compromised. The more attention you pay to security - updates, anti malware software, not opening stuff in emails with links/attachments from unknown people, the less chance you have of getting done.

Having your computer checked over every so often by a clued up mate or family member is a good idea.

Gus

 

[2ManyBoxes]

An example, Julian, of how phone banking is a no-no currently, is NS&I's unprecedented rates and the only way to transact efficiently is by internet.

I bank with Barclays also and fortunately they are still contactable by phone. They use a 5 figure code for some reason instead of the 4 figure card one but that's OK.

I take your point about contacting any part of the Government by phone though. Boris must have shaken hands with all of them because I can't contact the DVLA at all to get my lost licence replaced. Their website can't handle my particular circumstances.

 

[2ManyBoxes]

Mike,
If things are dropping out for that long then it could be a Virgin problem. As you say, with more kids getting their schooling at home now it could be overloading their local servers, although it shouldn't take that long to come back. Maybe it does.

Good luck with contacting Virgin though, they're tighter than the chuff of E. coli. Their contact number is allegedly 0345 454 1111, although I haven't tried it post Covid.

 

[Mike Reed]

If things are dropping out for that long then it could be a Virgin problem.

I'm quite convinced it is, Julian. It's enough hassle to phone, haggle and whatever come renewal time when there's no choice except to submit to ridiculous and disproportionately swingeing increases; this doesn't warrant that hassle.