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Anyone tried blind testing DACs?

webster said:
I've just changed my DAC from a Rega Dac R to a Chord Qutest.
I'm not going to use terms like 'night & day' etc. because that just wouldn't be true.
However the difference between these two was immediately apparent to me.
The Rega has a fuller more analogue type sound - the Qutest more detailed and precise with a tighter bass.
I think the Qutest is a little gem that really does unearth details in music that with the Rega I had only suspected were there.
The Rega has six filters and if I'm honest if there is any difference it's too subtle for my ears - conversely I was able to detect a small difference when changing filters on the Qutest with a little warmth added which could be useful when listening for extended periods.
For now I'm just enjoying the experience of rediscovering favourite albums and will leave the blind testing to those so inclined.
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Always been curious about the Rega Dac, original and latest versions. I used to own an Apollo CDP and really liked the sound but I found its soundstage quite flat and hence moved to the vintage Rotel 965BX. How would you describe the sound? I do like a little warmth and enjoyed the sound of my Yammie tuner. Is it an early Rega Dac or one of the revisions?
 
Mr Pig said:
I thought they'd dropped the number of filters to three on the R?
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Please find below the various filter setting on the Rega Dac R (well you did ask !!)


Filter settings 1–3
(low sample rates 32/44.1/48K)
1. Linear phase half-band filter
2. Minimum phase half-band filter
3. Minimum phase apodising filter


Filter settings 1–3
(medium & high sample rates 88.2/96 & 176.4/192K)
1. Linear phase soft-knee filter
2. Minimum phase brickwall filter
3. Linear phase apodising filter

PD

That's from the horse's mouth.:)
 
Del monaco said:
Always been curious about the Rega Dac, original and latest versions. I used to own an Apollo CDP and really liked the sound but I found its soundstage quite flat and hence moved to the vintage Rotel 965BX. How would you describe the sound? I do like a little warmth and enjoyed the sound of my Yammie tuner. Is it an early Rega Dac or one of the revisions?
Click to expand...
It's a Dac R (now sold).
I own a 965BX as well but found using it purely as a transport with the Rega was a nice improvement - added a bit more meat and introduced a real toe tapping quality that was less apparent with the 965BX on its own.
I have to say that the Qutest being fed by a Zen Mk2 knocks the spots off of anything I've ever owned.
 
i don't understand the point of blind testing either ... every time i've heard a piece of equipment that makes a huge difference (improvement) i've always found it surprising (and hardly confirmation bias or what-have-you) ... there are LOADS of times i went in for a dealer demo where i was fully expecting to be amazed by something and felt really disappointed. i've learned there is relatively little correlation between what i hope for and the result. So where does that leave the purpose of blind testing?
 
Del monaco said:
Always been curious about the Rega Dac, original and latest versions.
Click to expand...

Sonically, I don't think there is a significant difference between the different variants of the Rega DAC. Yes, something like a Naim, or a Rotel, gives you a punchier sound which is more impressive at first. In a shop dem the Naim would win every time. However, listening long-term is a completely different story.

The Rega sounds much more like music. There is a lot of detail there but it doesn't get thrown at you. It's in it's correct place in the music and you have a cohesive whole which flows together in a smooth, analogue way. It sounds more like a turntable than any other digital I've heard. By that I mean it has the same easy to listen to sound but with the same sort of rhythmic involvement. It's the first digital I've had that I've got no desire to change.

Worth mentioning that the Rega DAC is sensitive to what feeds it and the cable used. The Coax input is best, the optical is ok but the USB input isn't very special. I tried a whole bunch of coax cables and my weapon of choice is a dirt cheap yellow plugged video cable.
 
webster said:
It's a Dac R (now sold).
I own a 965BX as well but found using it purely as a transport with the Rega was a nice improvement - added a bit more meat and introduced a real toe tapping quality that was less apparent with the 965BX on its own.
I have to say that the Qutest being fed by a Zen Mk2 knocks the spots off of anything I've ever owned.
Click to expand...
That’s interesting. I currently run my Pi and Spdif hat through the Sabre Dac in my Yamaha. I like the balance.There’s a crispness to the sound with an underlying warmth and bloom. I didn’t know what to expect really as I’d previously used an external Dac but I’m very happy with the results of an all in one amp. The phono stage was very decent but I recently bought a used outboard Project phono stage which has lifted the sound of my vinyl. Need to play with the gain etc. which is a new thing for me.i wanted to try the Rotel through my Yammie but was unsure about the high jitter of the Rotel output. I presume that the Dac will control this?
 
Jonathan said:
So where does that leave the purpose of blind testing?
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The purpose of blind testing is to discover whether a listener can tell the difference between the sound of A and B, where A and B differ by some change in the audio chain (could be source, format, audio equipment etc). This is all it claims to do. For those who feel only long-term testing works, you could do a long-term blind test, the only requirement is that you don't know which of A and B you are listening to. In some cases it could be hard to arrange (if it is the CD player in your shed for example) but I feel it would really be worth it, to test the idea that there are cases where a short switch is not revealing, but long term listening is.

Tim
 
onlyconnect said:
For those who feel only long-term testing works, you could do a long-term blind test..
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You could, I just don't think it's unnecessary.

No matter what you've bought or how shiny it is, sooner or later you are sitting there just listening to the music and not thinking about the box it's coming out of. It's then you find out if the music is magic or mechanical and knowing what the box is makes no difference.
 
Mr Pig said:
Sonically, I don't think there is a significant difference between the different variants of the Rega DAC. Yes, something like a Naim, or a Rotel, gives you a punchier sound which is more impressive at first. In a shop dem the Naim would win every time. However, listening long-term is a completely different story.

The Rega sounds much more like music. There is a lot of detail there but it doesn't get thrown at you. It's in it's correct place in the music and you have a cohesive whole which flows together in a smooth, analogue way. It sounds more like a turntable than any other digital I've heard. By that I mean it has the same easy to listen to sound but with the same sort of rhythmic involvement. It's the first digital I've had that I've got no desire to change.

Worth mentioning that the Rega DAC is sensitive to what feeds it and the cable used. The Coax input is best, the optical is ok but the USB input isn't very special. I tried a whole bunch of coax cables and my weapon of choice is a dirt cheap yellow plugged video cable.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mr Pig. I prefer a more unassuming sound, hence my set up. I know what you mean about the Naim or others to be honest.It’s a bit like TVs in showrooms, their settings heightened to make an immediate impression. I always eschewed the Sony’s in favour of the more organic picture that the Panasonic gave. I’m the luck owner of a Beovision TV which also has lovely sound but the screen is an LG.I like to take time to buy new products and allow initial flourishes to die down before making a decision.
 
Mr Pig said:
No matter what you've bought or how shiny it is, sooner or later you are sitting there just listening to the music and not thinking about the box it's coming out of. It's then you find out if the music is magic or mechanical and knowing what the box is makes no difference.
Click to expand...
Exactly that.
 
Del monaco said:
It’s a bit like TVs in showrooms, their settings heightened to make an immediate impression. I always eschewed the Sony’s in favour of the more organic picture that the Panasonic gave.
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Years ago we bought a Panasonic plasma based on great revues. In the shop it looked terrible. Really dull and washed out. In the house it's lovely but if I'd just walked into the shop and chose a TV based on what I saw there is no way I would've bought it.
 
Mr Pig said:
The Coax input is best, the optical is ok but the USB input isn't very special.
Click to expand...
My experence with the Dac R was that the USB input was every bit as good as the coaxial & optical.
Using a better source (Zen Mk2) was quite telling.
I had a Bluesound for quite a while and whilst it's an excellent bit of kit it definitely wasn't allowing the Dac R to shine as it should.
 
onlyconnect said:
The purpose of blind testing is to discover whether a listener can tell the difference between the sound of A and B, where A and B differ by some change in the audio chain (could be source, format, audio equipment etc). This is all it claims to do. For those who feel only long-term testing works, you could do a long-term blind test, the only requirement is that you don't know which of A and B you are listening to. In some cases it could be hard to arrange (if it is the CD player in your shed for example) but I feel it would really be worth it, to test the idea that there are cases where a short switch is not revealing, but long term listening is.

Tim
Click to expand...


obviously ... it's only for the skeptics.
 
Very happy with the Rega DAC I have, fed by a Mac mini USB out into a Behringer UCA222 to convert to optical.

As Mr Pig says, it just sounds like music. No harshness and is very easy to listen to for extended periods. I leave it on filter 2. Other than an Audiolab Q-DAC that's the sum total of my DAC experience, but I like it so feel no need to explore anything else.

Think I'll have a play with it today via coax input from an old DVD player.
 
deebster said:
Very happy with the Rega DAC I have, fed by a Mac mini USB out into a Behringer UCA222 to convert to optical.
Click to expand...

I got a Rega DAC for my son a month or so ago. He was using a Beresford Caiman and he heard the improvement straight away. He's very happy with the Rega.
 
Mr Pig said:
It is. I won't go into the technical reasons why, we've done it to death, but it simply does not work.
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Indeed, in the distance I see a tree, a very tall tree. Must be at least 30 m tall. The closer I get, the taller it seems. Perhaps even 40 m? To clarify the issue I then decide to measure the tree. Result: the tree is only 25 m tall.

Which only goes to show that measuring trees is unnecessary. Measuring trees just does not work.
 
Octavian said:
Indeed, in the distance I see a tree, a very tall tree. Must be at least 30 m tall. The closer I get, the taller it seems. Perhaps even 40 m? To clarify the issue I then decide to measure the tree. Result: the tree is only 25 m tall.

Which only goes to show that measuring trees is unnecessary. Measuring trees just does not work.
Click to expand...

Your post makes no sense to me?
 
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