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Brexit: give me a positive effect... IIII

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Even the hard of thinking got the drift from the vote Leave campaign- you could say it was specifically written for that target audience.
In the first instance we were going to save a shed load of money the EU was taking from us for nothing in return ( we pays in more than we gets out), we would be freed from their rules ( tellin us what to do, like obeying the European Court of Human Rights) and we would be free to trade with anyone ( just as we’ve always been).

In other words thing were going to be better the moment we left and not only that but the EU was so relatively weak compared with us that they would accede to any preferential trade deal we demanded from them ( it’ll be the easiest deal in history).

I'd like this, but Brian might get upset that "the gang" are acting in concert again, so I won't.
 
Even the hard of thinking got the drift from the vote Leave campaign- you could say it was specifically written for that target audience.
In the first instance we were going to save a shed load of money the EU was taking from us for nothing in return ( we pays in more than we gets out), we would be freed from their rules ( tellin us what to do, like obeying the European Court of Human Rights) and we would be free to trade with anyone ( just as we’ve always been).

In other words thing were going to be better the moment we left and not only that but the EU was so relatively weak compared with us that they would accede to any preferential trade deal we demanded from them ( it’ll be the easiest deal in history).

"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."
 
I'd like this, but Brian might get upset that "the gang" are acting in concert again, so I won't.
Just to be clear for you, Col. You lot don’t upset me in the slightest, I just wonder at how, what I assume to be adult blokes, can be so pathetic.
 
Maybe that was a little harsh, but try to see it from a wider point of view. Of course people didn't have a specific deal in mind, but there were many different reasons for people voting to leave the EU. Therefore it is a logical fallacy to conclude that all of them voted automatically for the hardest of Brexits and no deal. They expected the government to sort out the negotiations and the final deal.

Now you presumably really believe this, but as Sue Pertwee-Tyr says, to others it looks kind of extremist, and just the sort of thing the nutjob Tories would come out with. Not trying to be nasty, but just telling you how it looks.
I don’t care how it looks. Maybe if you take a comment at face value rather than automatically assuming some ‘badness’ in there. The hard remainers are far closer to being an extremist than I am.

Anyway, no it is not a fallacy at all.

My guess is different to your guess, and is that when the word ‘deal’ was mentioned people believed it was a reference to future trade deals with any other country, not some specific deal/agreement with only the EU at the point of leaving the EU. Logically, this means many believed we would leave the EU and ‘deal’ with the EU in the same way as with every other country.

What ‘deal’ would you call that? I think it is called WTO terms but you may not agree.
 
Is this a positive effect (remoaners abandoning ship)?

Number of UK citizens emigrating to EU has risen by 30% since Brexit vote
Exclusive: crisis has led to 500% increase in Britons taking up citizenship in an EU state

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ating-to-eu-has-risen-by-30-since-brexit-vote


Analysis of data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and Eurostat shows that migration from Britain to EU states averaged 56,832 people a year in 2008-15, growing to 73,642 a year in 2016-18.

The study also shows a 500% increase in those who made the move and then took up citizenship in an EU state. Germany saw a 2,000% rise, with 31,600 Britons naturalising there since the referendum.
 
I've not really drilled into those statistics, but couldn't that be people who have moved already, and are simply just panicking about their rights vaporising?

e.g. those beer and chips expats who have suddenly smelt the coffee (or PG Tips)
 
If you can't see it then that's not my problem Brian. I can't help any further.
I see very clearly, thank you.

You may not agree but I suspect what I’m saying finally got through rather than appearing I lost my marbles, but it’s easier to move on than say so. Fine by me.

I've not really drilled into those statistics, but couldn't that be people who have moved already, and are simply just panicking about their rights vaporising?

e.g. those beer and chips expats who have suddenly smelt the coffee (or PG Tips)
English Breakfast is far superior...
 
Is this a positive effect (remoaners abandoning ship)?


<snip>
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ating-to-eu-has-risen-by-30-since-brexit-vote
<snip>
Double-edged sword, I’d say.

This is a positive for those remoaners jumping ship from brexit England ahead of the demise into obscurity on 1st Jan 2021, especially heading to a place that has no racists and is populated with people so much nicer than the English.

For the hard remoaners, those who lack what it requires to take advantage of the freedom of movement they say we can’t exist without, it is a negative as they become an ever decreasing minority and become stuck on brexit island forever, unable to go anywhere.
 
Have you watched the new "Let’s Get Going" video by The Sunlit Uplands?
Looks promising... It'll be a top-of-the-charts hit.

 
• New trading relations ✓ (that is an inevitability; better trading relations? unlikely)

• Preparing for a new approach to trading with EU ✓ (more paperwork, delays at customs and taxes? sounds bad)


The goverment will ensure that:

• Exporters can take advantage of new trade agreements (what does "take advantage" mean? as a member of the EU the UK already had the best deals it could possibly get without selling itself)

• Industry regulations allow small businesses to thrive (does this mean lower corporate-taxes, environmental de-regulation and loss of rights for workers?)

• Immigration system that suits the needs of our economy (possible, but likely? the economy post Covid is a different beast anyway...wait and see)

• The UK fishing industry takes back control of UK waters (isn't populism nice?)
 
A likely 2021 scenario?

• price of necessity goods (your supermarket bill) increases
• environment takes a hit
• food standards fall
• low-wage employment becomes more precarious and pays less
• lower corporate tax revenue & a smaller middle-class (though paying more tax) means defunded councils, schools, research, police, justice, health, benefits (Covid + job cuts = havoc)
• NHS is partly privatised, becomes less universal/inclusive and more expensive
what else?
• the rich get richer and the poor get poorer

Take back control of that!
 
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• New trading relations ✓ (that is an inevitability; better trading relations? unlikely)

• Preparing for a new approach to trading with EU ✓ (more paperwork, delays at customs and taxes? sounds bad)


The goverment will ensure that:

• Exporters can take advantage of new trade agreements (what does "take advantage" mean? as a member of the EU the UK already had the best deals it could possibly get without selling itself)

• Industry regulations allow small businesses to thrive (does this mean lower corporate-taxes, environmental de-regulation and loss of rights for workers?)

• Immigration system that suits the needs of our economy (possible, but likely? the economy post Covid is a different beast anyway...wait and see)

• The UK fishing industry takes back control of UK waters (isn't populism nice?)
In other words, we get to see what it’s really like after January 1st. It’ll be all fur coat and no knickers
 
I see very clearly, thank you.

You may not agree but I suspect what I’m saying finally got through rather than appearing I lost my marbles, but it’s easier to move on than say so. Fine by me.

I don't know how your thought processes arrived at the conclusion that all leavers wanted no deal Brian, but it doesn't change the fact that the conclusion is still bonkers. You may not agree, but there we have it.

Still, at least Boris & his droogs are on board with it.
 
I'm just re-reading Wolf Hall, and seeing "then" in an all new Brexity context.
References to: riots against foreigners; dislike of all foreign ways; France is "ours", needing to be reclaimed; Wolsey representing foreign power (Rome: read Brussels); Queen Katherine's nephew Charles is Holy Roman Emperor and a threat to the King and his "freedom" (to ditch the Queen and marry a slut (but who learned her ways at the French court)); English "virtue"; and Cromwell's foreign learning running rings round all of them. The book won the Booker in 2009. All of Brexit is there. It's kind of weirdly prophetic. Oh, and there's a pandemic, too !
 
I don't know how your thought processes arrived at the conclusion that all leavers wanted no deal Brian, but it doesn't change the fact that the conclusion is still bonkers. You may not agree, but there we have it.

Still, at least Boris & his droogs are on board with it.
'No deal' is the only Brexit on offer at the moment. Bino colony status is not leaving the ECJ dictatorship.
 
I don't know how your thought processes arrived at the conclusion that all leavers wanted no deal Brian, but it doesn't change the fact that the conclusion is still bonkers. You may not agree, but there we have it.

Still, at least Boris & his droogs are on board with it.
That's not what I said, there was an obvious context as it was a reply to a post, but anyway, it's what I've come to expect from you, so there we have it, yes.

Beats me why you keep talking to me about Boris. Clutching at straws is a good guess.
 
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