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High end streamers, waste of money or not, please?

DV, thanks for the input. But essentially, your saying the same thing, that it’s all about the error/error correction whilst playing versus the ‘clean’ ripped file?
 
topa said:
On the contrary, my Atom based Fit-PCs running Daphile sound much better than a SB Touch or Aries Mini, all into the same DAC.
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I didn't move away from a general purpose computer for SQ reasons. I did so for a better UI and avoiding the crashes with software like JRiver. If a DAC has a well engineered USB input (i.e., with proper galvanic isolation etc.), all streamers capable of bit perfect data transfer should sound the same. This is my experience with RME and Mytek DACs. When I used an Audiolab CDQ it was susceptible to rubbish entering its USB port, but it is an older design. A standard SBT does not have a USB output and I would agree that it is not quite as good as asynchronous USB (It was still pretty good for its day though!).
 
davidsrsb said:
That would be a computer plus a DAC, I was talking about the streamer standalone with external DAC, I don't want to derail this thread into DAC comparisons.
My idea of a streamer is a device that can playout audio streams from Internet radio stations, services like Qobuz and from a file store, either as an internal hard disk or a NAS.
All this comes with a user interface to select what you want to play.
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My idea of a streamer is one that has a high quality digital converter inside the box.
But we're all different.
 
I have a Naim streamer/DAC - an ND5 XS2. I'm pretty happy with it on the whole, but I'm sure you could beat the SQ if you spent the same on a good DAC and ran a lead from a laptop. I spend all day on a computer though, so I don't want to use a computer as an interface to my hifi.
 
Darth Vader said:
....In a CD player the LPCM stream comes straight off the CD and into an internal DAC so it gets one shot at reading the flats and bumps that produces the LPCM.

I remember following a discussion between CD mastering guys and the thrust was why if you recorded the same piece several times on the same CD they all sounded different. I don't remember any more as it was several years ago.

Cheers,

DV
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The CDDA data stream contains levels of error protection.
The CD player should correct simple errors bit accurately.
More severe errors are concealed by guessing the missing data

Different makes of CD player varied in their ability to deal with these errors, there were special test disks for this.

The CD pressing would have to be really botched to get the errors bad enough to sound different in multiple copies
 
The concept of a standalone audio network player is quickly becoming absolete as inexpensive alternatives become available. I use a Microrendu with Mconnect streaming software for a functional, hires/MQA system. It's inexpensive and it works well.
 
Darth Vader said:
This is a common misunderstanding. The red book CDs are not files whilst those stored within a computer are. For CD tracks there is only one continuous stream of LPCM audio data and reading that via the flats and bumps on a CD via a laser is prone to errors. During the conversion of the LPCM stream to a computer file WAV, FLAC, ALAC etc the disk track may be read several times so as to extract the best and consistent read of the LPCM stream. The so called ripped track then may be a more accurate representation of what is actually on the CD. The stored files have to be converted back to an LPCM stream to be played back via a DAC.

In a CD player the LPCM stream comes straight off the CD and into an internal DAC so it gets one shot at reading the flats and bumps that produces the LPCM.

I remember following a discussion between CD mastering guys and the thrust was why if you recorded the same piece several times on the same CD they all sounded different. I don't remember any more as it was several years ago.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

But the data on a CD is not a straight LPCM stream. Common misconception that somehow a CD file is just streamed off a disc and out to the DAC. The data file on a CD is broken up into blocks with extra bits added to allow for error correction on the fly. The 'stream' of data from the laser has to be re-assembled in the right order in a buffer before being sent to a DAC. Errors have to be exceedingly gross for 'wrong' data to sent to the DAC.
 
davidsrsb said:
The CDDA data stream contains levels of error protection.
The CD player should correct simple errors bit accurately.
More severe errors are concealed by guessing the missing data

Different makes of CD player varied in their ability to deal with these errors, there were special test disks for this.

The CD pressing would have to be really botched to get the errors bad enough to sound different in multiple copies
Click to expand...
I must confess, until DV’s intervention, that was where I was. However, even at my age, ears don’t lie and the SQ difference is so large that there must be a reason. Without any other ideas, I must accept this as the truth.
 
Timcat said:
I didn't move away from a general purpose computer for SQ reasons. I did so for a better UI and avoiding the crashes with software like JRiver. If a DAC has a well engineered USB input (i.e., with proper galvanic isolation etc.), all streamers capable of bit perfect data transfer should sound the same. This is my experience with RME and Mytek DACs. When I used an Audiolab CDQ it was susceptible to rubbish entering its USB port, but it is an older design. A standard SBT does not have a USB output and I would agree that it is not quite as good as asynchronous USB (It was still pretty good for its day though!).
Click to expand...

EDO fixes this. I imagine most of us with an SBT who care for the last little bit of audio quality have installed EDO.

Tim
 
Every time I think I have got whats being said here new acronyms get thrown into the mix!.
That is one reason wh simple boxes appeal to me, as I'm a simple soul at heart.
I can't be bothered to go to Google every 5 minutes to keep abreast of it all (not dissing those who like to get into the science and technology of it all).
I am currently saving a large CD collection to a Uniti Core. D to D and storage in one box. Playing through a Uniti as preamp, CD/Radio/PnP/Streamer/phono one box. To my NAP 160, one box. All integrated/managed via the Naim app. Works for me!
 
Darth Vader said:
This is a common misunderstanding. The red book CDs are not files whilst those stored within a computer are. For CD tracks there is only one continuous stream of LPCM audio data and reading that via the flats and bumps on a CD via a laser is prone to errors. During the conversion of the LPCM stream to a computer file WAV, FLAC, ALAC etc the disk track may be read several times so as to extract the best and consistent read of the LPCM stream. The so called ripped track then may be a more accurate representation of what is actually on the CD. The stored files have to be converted back to an LPCM stream to be played back via a DAC.

In a CD player the LPCM stream comes straight off the CD and into an internal DAC so it gets one shot at reading the flats and bumps that produces the LPCM.

I remember following a discussion between CD mastering guys and the thrust was why if you recorded the same piece several times on the same CD they all sounded different. I don't remember any more as it was several years ago.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...
Great explanateion. This is something I was definitely in the misunderstanding camp on. Thanks!
 
i'm now on my third "streaming solution".
started with a Squeezebox,then a SlimDevices/Logitech Transporter... then i got a Linn Akurate DS upgraded to Katalyst spec...replay performance between it and the Sondek is very similar but the whole manual disc effort is still well worth it ;).
 
So i have minidsp shd studio with integrated volumio player. And i think the volumio part is a bit of a pos and pisses me off to no end. Lots of problems with Qobuz with randomly stopping playing and then skipping ahead several tracks down the playlist after a few min. Volumio becomes unresponsive during this period. Looks like a volumio problem to me. Can still play Qobuz fine on other devices in my network. Also indexing from a network share on my linux box through either NFS or Samba fails after a while. So it's useless for that as well, then there is the app which interface is atrocious and stupid. Sometimes it works fine for hours on end but usually most days there will be a problem.

Sorry for ranting/venting i am very salty. Nothing pisses me off more then enjoying some music and it suddenly stops. I count it almost equal as someone spitting in my food. Maybe i'm weird like that.

Anyway...(again sorry for the rant) i've been looking at the Bluesound node2i, how's the stability on that device? I have just under a Tb of music that i would like to listen to with a nice interface. And also stream stuff ofcourse. How's the coax spdif output?
 
The Node 2i is a super little unit.
Yes, I’ve found it to be very stable & the BluOS control app is pretty much as good as it gets. You can upgrade the sound by hooking it up to a better off-board DAC but the built in one is very decent for the price.
 
manicatel said:
The Node 2i is a super little unit.
Yes, I’ve found it to be very stable & the BluOS control app is pretty much as good as it gets. You can upgrade the sound by hooking it up to a better off-board DAC but the built in one is very decent for the price.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the impression! Yes i will hook it up to my minidsp which in turn connects to a Schiit Yggdrasil. Seems very tempting, would be nice if there was solution that has blueos and only spdif/aes. Gonna have a think about it, there is a price for convenience.
 
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