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High end streamers, waste of money or not, please?

I have replaced an NDX and NAC112 with a MiniDSP SHD (streaming Pre, with some clever DSP) and have absolutely no regrets. With active monitors this solution would be even tidier!


I have a friend who has just taken delivery of a MiniDSP SHD. I'm waiting to go over and have a listen.
 
It’s great to have such choice really. Clearly budget dependent. My FIL spends a fortune on his system and it is rather lovely sounding. I don’t have the benefit of a large hifi budget but the limitations force you to look at other solutions and it’s never been better for low cost/high quality streaming systems. Also the second hand hifi market is a treasure trove and has allowed me to purchase great sound for peanuts really. I like being budget limited! I’ve also started my first ever hifi fund and am using Fleabay to build this.I’ve sold old cables, equipment etc. and it’s a great source of funds.
 
If it were me I would buy a top notch dac and a decent streamer based on features and software.
e.g. Naim latest generation streamers have advanced significantly but they do come with DACs. agree, a separate DAC at the heart of your system could be a good strategy. Change your streamers, keep longer the DAC, server and Amps.
 
I started streaming a year ago just out of curiosity using a Link streamer into a dac/amp. The Link was such a pain to set up and the Volumio didn’t work properly so it went back and I spent more on an Auralic which is great with a simple interface to the IPad. Waste of money? Maybe but for a non techie simplicity is worth paying for imho.+ it works well with Wi-Fi which I wanted to use.
 
I’m after a Bryston streamer to feed my DAC (inbuilt add-on option in my B135 cubed).

Not because I expect it to sound any different to the RPi / digi-hat in a fag packet that I currently use. Rather, I just want a neat, matching, two box solution that can be turned on and off together, and will be an utterly reliable setup (I hope!), which will also work as a certified Roon end-point (again, it should “just work”).

With this said, the Rpi solution has been solid, so in truth it’s 90% down to aesthetics.

Anyone with a BDP-2 or 3 to sell who fancies p/x’ing against my Metrum Onyx please get in touch!
 
With this said, the Rpi solution has been solid, so in truth it’s 90% down to aesthetics.
IMHO its also the ability to stop/lose all the faff that is associated with keeping up to date with the softwares and the never ending hardware changes - the RPi are for the geeks amongst us. Something like the PDB-x is Plug and Play.
 
I started streaming a year ago just out of curiosity using a Link streamer into a dac/amp. The Link was such a pain to set up and the Volumio didn’t work properly so it went back and I spent more on an Auralic which is great with a simple interface to the IPad. Waste of money? Maybe but for a non techie simplicity is worth paying for imho.+ it works well with Wi-Fi which I wanted to use.
I've a Pi2 which I occasionally drag out to fiddle with, but there are two things that stop me using it - 1. Despite trying various options, Volumio, etc., the blasted thing still hangs every now and again, and I have to pull the system up on a display to figure out what's happened. 2. It just doesn't sound as good as my main playing system, even using my Melco as a source over the network.

I've never liked the Naim etc. streaming arrangement (just look at the massive amount of fiddling with switches, CAT cabling etc. etc.folk seem to get involved in). Streaming directly from a Melco N1Z via USB into Chord Scaler/DAC works perfectly and sounds superb.
 
I've never liked the Naim etc. streaming arrangement (just look at the massive amount of fiddling with switches, CAT cabling etc. etc.folk seem to get involved in). Streaming directly from a Melco N1Z via USB into Chord Scaler/DAC works perfectly and sounds superb.
I don’t think the network arrangements are in any way unique or specific to Naim, this applies to any streamer? Melco and Innuos have the advantage of combining streaming and storing your music conveniently in the same box, however Melco’s interface has been very slow to evolve - not sure if the EX and their app have resolved this and what your thoughts are? Melco also still uses not very good power supplies in units costing 3-5k but apparently their hard drives are quite good. For some reason people still seem to be combining a Melco and a streamer, I think if it works, your solution seems much simpler and probably sounding as good.
 
I don't think age has got anything to do with it - some people just prefer a simple plug and play solution.
That said I am getting on a bit.;)

Same here, i'd prioritise a good interface. Computer with a big HD monitor and i can control that from the keyboard, tablet or phone.

DAC is in the preamp for main system using optical out and in computer for HDMI out to the kitchen.

We're a bit rural so can't work with high res files yet.
 
Boxes marketed as 'Streamers' are like boxes ISPs give you called 'Routers'. They amalgamate a number of functions in one box in the interests of convenience. A DAC and digital media reader in the case of the former and a modem, router and switch in the case of the latter. You could get separate boxes to do each of these functions, but it's not always worth it.

....except for the function of reading digital audio media. Linn and others charge a fortune for something that really only differs from a pi in terms of firmware and ui. The output is identical. Would you spend £1500 extra on a washing machine just because it had a touchscreen? In effect that is exactly what many hi fi manufacturers are suggesting you do and they deserve your contempt and, possibly, pity.

Buy a fancy pants streamer by all means, but you are being ripped off. I'm still out on DACs. I've tried a bunch of competent DACs over the years retailing from £100 to £1000 and the differences are marginal. I suspect a very old audio alchemy dde 1.1 that only handled up to 48/16 is still the most pleasing dac I've used to my ear, but it's marginal.

I agree with you insofar as the influence streamers (without DACs) have on SQ is concerned. So long as their output is bit perfect and you have a competently designed DAC, streamers do not influence SQ; as you say, their output is identical! But, I do understand why people choose to pay more and move on from a RPi or similar. I have used a RPi as a streamer and it worked fine but the available UIs (Volumio and the like) are or were somewhat limiting and the the machine would fall over every so often, or simply become inaccessible. OK, being a bit go a geek, I could always find it again via a browser interface, but you can imagine how well it went down with the family when they couldn't access their music and I told them to start by entering the Pi's IP address into the browser on their phones!

I think that it is worth paying a little more for usability and a decent UI, or even significantly more if you want a pretty box. Currently I use Auralic Aries Minis in two systems because they are reliable and I like the UI (almost as good as Roon, but free). These were not expensive (about £400) but unfortunately are no longer made. I get the impression that Auralic dropped them because customers realised that they were just as good as the full sized Aries devices, but at a third of the price! If one of my Minis failed, I think that I would buy one of the full sized Aries boxes, not expecting any change in SQ, but to maintain the UI because I like it.

Edit, I forgot to mention that I use the Aries Minis with separate DACs connected by USB.
 
If I was to start now on a more sensible budget, yes, I would probably go for an Auralic streamer (Aries type) and use with a DAC/Amp I have or like. Their app and user experience is second to none, you can connect any drives directly and their Lightning server is very good. All this with excellent sound quality.
 
I agree with you insofar as the influence streamers (without DACs) have on SQ is concerned. So long as their output is bit perfect and you have a competently designed DAC, streamers do not influence SQ; as you say, their output is identical! .
I can only relate my own experiences here, but having gone from iMac to optimised Mac Mini to Melco, the latter definitely sounds better in my main system. If I put the Melco in my second system, it doesn't sound any better than the Macbook Pro I use there.
 
I spent years messing with Linux and the Logitech Squeezebox and it all worked just fine but in the end I just couldn't be arsed any longer and bought a Bluesound Node. An RPI could be a 100x better but I just don't need the faff, I'll be sticking with the node, I love the interface and its simplicity so won't be going back to messing with stuff any time soon....
 
I seem to be the odd “old Buqqer” out here as I have three RPi based streamers in active use and another four on the shelf.........
 
I've got a couple of Pi based streamers but vastly prefer an old Lumin D1 providing 0s and 1s for my Aesthetix Pandora DAC. The Pi based stuff craps out every now and then, which is not true of the Lumin, or the Auralic Aires mini in the kitchen. Either way, Pi or Streamer, the approach which makes most sense to me is to spend the vast bulk of your digital budget on a DAC and then treat the streamer/renderer as a consumable like a cartridge. It seems like technological redundancy makes the useful working life of the streamer about 3 years at best. Clearly, the Squeezebox is an exception, but I would be a bit miffed to have spent NDS-tyoe money in 2013 and found that the product was obsolete and/or discontinued within 5 years.
 
I spent years messing with Linux and the Logitech Squeezebox and it all worked just fine but in the end I just couldn't be arsed any longer and bought a Bluesound Node. An RPI could be a 100x better but I just don't need the faff, I'll be sticking with the node, I love the interface and its simplicity so won't be going back to messing with stuff any time soon....

What's the internal DAC like on the Node?
 


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