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Militant Teacher Unions

Simon Vess

pfm Member
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/to...ded-for-front-page-cover-on-twitter-1-6655617

This sort of crass headline really makes me sick

They just don’t get it...

People who join the military and emergency services have it as part of their job description to put themselves in harm’s way to benefit /protect society

Teachers do not

It is all very well to talk about “balancing the risk” ( to whom? ) of re-opening schools against the risk of harm done to students who are missing out on their education

Perhaps those who use that argument will be first in line to expose themselves to that risk

If it were me I would certainly not be prepared to risk my life ( no overstatement here) to relieve parents of some of their responsibilities with their own children

Understandably, the government position is always going to favour “society” at the expense of (expendable ) individuals, as in times of war, but being a hero to save lives in an ICU is one thing, but the protection against potential mental health issues with over - anxious teenagers does not qualify as a cause to risk one’s life for in my opinion





Simon
 
Unions exist to protect and help groups with little individual power from interference and harm by government and other controlling groups. A non militant group can only exist when no protection is needed. Only the daily Mail could fail to understand this.
I am sure that 99% of teachers are wanting to get back to work, but few want to do it if it means an unacceptable level of personal danger to them and their charges. Somewhere there is a balance to be found, but, as ever, the ministry involved have absolutely no idea about the actuality of education, the care of pupils and staff and, it seems, could care less. If the results are going up, you get to stay minister, if not, you don't. About the same level of understanding as the Mail. And ofc, doubtless the Mail pops 'through the letterbox' at ministry mansions every morning.
 
This was ages ago back in May. The Daily Mail fully grasp that no teacher, or anyone else with an above average IQ, would ever read their publication, so they can safely add them to their list of scapegoats to be vilified and blamed for the failures of the political right. As long as the “paper” promotes a low-wage low-tax low-rights economy its owners will be happy and whatever anti-science alt-right bullcrap they can sell to achieve that is ‘fair game’.

PS As ever #StopFundingHate. Hit their advertisers, strangle their funding, change the behaviour.
 
what about the folks in the food production or supermarket sector who have been at risk to feed you?
Rgds
Stuart
Or the military who are always drafted in first to deal with this kind of situation, in this instance taking over swabbing duties which, by virtue of the status of people needing to be swabbed, outs them right on the front line again. No union.
 
The idea that teacher’s unions are militant is not true. Many have a no strike policy and of the two biggest unions, the NASUWT is non confrontational.

Any teacher union can only advise members, it cannot ‘stand in the way’ of teachers returning to work and it cannot call teachers out on strike without a ballot of all members.

If teachers are heroes, why are they afforded so little respect? Why are they expected to work in close contact conditions while there is supposed to be social distancing for everyone else? Why have teachers been expected to give up their statutory time off to work over Easter for no pay? Why are classroom teachers over 50 so disproportionately vulnerable to disciplinary and capability procedures? Why are schools so underfunded?
 
I think the word 'Militant' has a very broad set of defenitions in real life. Add it to 'Union' if you want to promote a mental image of snarling men at barricades throwing petrol bombs at the Police. (And women Reg).
 
Are people in food Production and supermarkets working in potentially unsafe conditions, conditions that do not meet government guidelines? If they are, they should join a union.
in some cases yes. Some are in unions. Either way it's clear that if and when I return to work in a food factory I am at greater risk than sitting here on my sofa.
 
Or the military who are always drafted in first to deal with this kind of situation, in this instance taking over swabbing duties which, by virtue of the status of people needing to be swabbed, outs them right on the front line again. No union.
Yup. I have a pal whose unit has been doing just this. The only thing to say is that normally, if something like this needs doing well, the military will at least do their very best to look at and minimise risks, but choice? No. You don't sign up to be offered choices. It can't be that way can it?
 
what about the folks in the food production or supermarket sector who have been at risk to feed you?
Rgds
Stuart

I would support them taking the same line.......100%

Everybody has to make a decision , individually about what level of risk they are prepared to accept, and act accordingly

For example bus drivers have been particularly at risk....the onus is on the bus company to ensure the safety of it’s staff, and clearly there have been problems with that

simon
 
in some cases yes. Some are in unions. Either way it's clear that if and when I return to work in a food factory I am at greater risk than sitting here on my sofa.

you have a decision to make.......

it is legally incumbent on your employer to protect your health and safety whilst at work

If you are suggesting that they do not then you likely have a good case against them

simon
 
Yup. I have a pal whose unit has been doing just this. The only thing to say is that normally, if something like this needs doing well, the military will at least do their very best to look at and minimise risks, but choice? No. You don't sign up to be offered choices. It can't be that way can it?
This was covered by the OP, Soldiers do sign up to put themselves in harms way for the benefit of the rest of us. Teacher’s don’t, yet this is what Williamson is proposing and the Tory Newspapers are trying to manipulate the voting public into accepting. The government would not be in this position if it did actually consult with the unions that represent the overwhelming majority of teachers.
 
I think the answer to this

Why are they expected to work in close contact conditions while there is supposed to be social distancing for everyone else? Why have teachers been expected to give up their statutory time off to work over Easter for no pay? Why are classroom teachers over 50 so disproportionately vulnerable to disciplinary and capability procedures? Why are schools so underfunded?

is this


The idea that teacher’s unions are militant is not true. Many have a no strike policy and of the two biggest unions, the NASUWT is non confrontational.

Any teacher union can only advise members, it cannot ‘stand in the way’ of teachers returning to work and it cannot call teachers out on strike without a ballot of all members.
 
Or the military who are always drafted in first to deal with this kind of situation, in this instance taking over swabbing duties which, by virtue of the status of people needing to be swabbed, outs them right on the front line again. No union.

But surely the military exist to put themselves in danger to protect “ civilians” ?
Simon
 
There are many circumstances when no amount of regulation and advice can prevent those in retail [some of which has continued right through the lockdown] being exposed to childish, irresponsible behaviour by patrons on occasion.

Most in retail are on the basic National Minimum Wage, and it goes with the job that they have to deal with the varied behaviour of customers without complaint. Most would probably be doing easier, better paid work if circumstances allowed.

I would say that being a teacher is a vocation and a choice, which requires certain fairly rare talents as well as considerable work to qualify, and a lifetime's dedication to be good at it. There are risks that go with the territory including physical and mental health concerns.

There will be teachers in high risk groups who should be treated with complete sympathy by their employers concerning the risks, but most teachers will be in a good position to return to work at no greater risk to themselves than anyone else in good health. If we have to wait for zero risk with Covid 19, it may be a school holiday running into 2021 [or indefinitely if Covid 19 becomes endemic in the absence of an effective vaccine] with all the problems that leads to for many [if not all] children getting further and further behind their cohort. Particularly so in cases where the parents are hardly in a position to help their children keep up with online learning.

The decision about the precise moment that schools return full time for all students will be a very difficult judgement call. There are risks involved. There are risks to health, and risks to some pupils who will fall behind their cohort in education. It is a balancing act.

It is thus pointless demonising some teachers, who may in reality never return to their vocation, and equally pointless demonising those with the un-enviable judgement to call about when schools return.

Once again what I am seeing is the nowadays usual politics of division and demonisation rather than something generous. Unfortunately politicians, society and the media seem to delight in increasing division and dislike ...

Oh, what a horrible society we live in these days. Best wishes from George
 
This was covered by the OP, Soldiers do sign up to put themselves in harms way for the benefit of the rest of us. Teacher’s don’t, yet this is what Williamson is proposing and the Tory Newspapers are trying to manipulate the voting public into accepting. The government would not be in this position if it did actually consult with the unions that represent the overwhelming majority of teachers.

exactly

Simon
 
Divide and Conquer.
That way the reckoning will fall on others.
And never those responsible.

This shower will be awarding themselves gongs for their performance during the crisis next.
 
There are many circumstances when no amount of regulation and advice can prevent those in retail [some of which has continued right through the lockdown] being exposed to childish, irresponsible behaviour by patrons on occasion.

Most in retail are on the basic National Minimum Wage, and it goes with the job that they have to deal with the varied behaviour of customers without complaint. Most would probably be doing easier, better paid work if circumstances allowed.

I would say the being a teacher is a vocation and a choice, which requires certain fairly rare skills as well as considerable work to qualify and a lifetime's dedication to be good at it. There are risks that go with the territory including physical and mental health concerns.

There will be teachers in high risk groups who should be treated with complete sympathy by their employers concerning the risks, but most teachers will be in a good position to return to work at no greater risk to themselves than anyone else in good health. If we have to wait for zero risk with Covid 19, it may be a school holiday running into 2021 [or indefinitely if Covid 19 becomes endemic in the absence of an effective vaccine] with all the problems that leads to for many [if not all] children getting further and further behind their cohort. Particularly so in cases where the parents are hardly in a position to help their children keep up with online learning.

The decision about the precise moment that schools return full time for all students will be a very difficult judgement call. There are risks involved. There are risks to health, and risks to some pupils who will fall behind their cohort in education. It is a balancing act.

It is thus pointless demonising some teachers, who may in reality never return to their vocation, and equally pointless demonising those with the un-enviable judgement to call about when schools return.

Once again what I am seeing is the nowadays usual politics of division and demonisation rather than something generous. Unfortunately politicians, society and the media seem to delight in relishing increasing divide and dislike of others.

Oh, what a horrible society we live in these days. Best wishes from George



pretty much spot-on

being at risk due to mental issues is one thing
But consider a teacher over 55 years of age
Being in a closed room with a dozen or more teenagers for several hours is pretty high up the scale of risk
We all know how socially (ir)responsible and ( not) careful about following rules they are, especially when many of them believe that they are effectively immune fom any danger

In addition, it is all very well talking about very low levels of risk (of catching the virus) which is probably low, but this must must be set against the (likely) life-threatening consequences of catching it

Simon
 


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