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A Croft in the loft?

JustJohn

pfm Member
The Croft Integrated (phono) is on my radar. What experience have you folks had with it?

Any idea how it stacks up against other integrated amps in the price range –- the Elex-R, Nait 5i and XS, and others? Speakers are Spendor S3/5R2, sources are Rega P6, Naim Uniti (CD/streaming/radio).

Cheers.
 
John, guess I will chime in here, while I currently own Croft Micro 25/Series 7 amps, I also have had experience with the Croft phono integrated. I also used a Naim Uniti as source into these Croft’s, and also own Naim Nait XS3, along with ND5XS2 streamer. While I haven’t done any comparison to Rega’s amps, I would imagine there will be others who have.

In my opinion, the Croft for starters will work pretty well with your Spendor I would think, and as I have found, the Uniti really is a very nice source, probably better than many would give credit. To me, I think the Croft/Naim work well with one another. I think the Naim helps give the Croft a bit of pace, but it is nothing pronounced.

The Croft integrated is a bit more laid back, or relaxed compared to the Naim XS, or Uniti used as all in one. I have owned Naim systems for many years, and really enjoy them. The excitement and drive is to my ears, somewhat addictive, and I manage to always come back to it. However, I also think the Croft is probably quite under rated, but I love it. It has a fine phono stage built in, and really has that something special going for it tonal wise, it just sounds right to my ears, measurements and all the hubbub be damned. And it is quite a bit cheaper than Naim etc.

The Naims do have more drive, they will do well with a more tougher load, where you may have to be a bit more careful with the Croft, just my opinion there, and I don’t see it as an issue with what you currently have, provided you aren’t trying to fill a large space. Really, I enjoy both equally well, they just tend to go about things a bit differently.

You have excellent sources, and in general, can’t see how you could really go wrong with any of your amp choices, along with the speakers you have. If possible, try to get a demo of the amps, could be tough right now, but we’ll worth it to see which you prefer. Have fun, enjoy the ride, and your music, more importantly!
 
Hi John,
I'm currently using a Croft Phono Integrated and I'm very very happy with it. If I give a little context first, you might also find it useful alongside what TimF has said above (which I absolutely agree with...).

My hifi journey looks like this: Naim Nait 3, then, up to CDS1, 82/180, with IBLs, then Isobariks.
Then I had kids, moved house and sold the lot slimming right down to a basic system for several years.
About 5 years ago I started doing hifi properly again, but this time with Densen. Beat integrated initially, then moving to a proper pre-power, driving Ruark Solus standmounts at the time.
This I really enjoyed. Then I had a brief flirt with the JVC 1010 that a lot of people love on here. TBH it was great having just one box for phono/dac/amp (and certainly cheaper) but it wasn't for me.
I had also sold the Ruarks and just refurbed what is my current set of speakers, a big pair of Hales Revelation III floorstanders.

Feeling a bit stuck I then saw an advert for a used Croft Phono Integrated.
This one was upgraded by Glenn with a higher output from 50 to 90w per channel.
I really fancied the idea of a hybrid amp and felt with the extra grunt it should be ok with my speakers so gave it a go.
It is by far the best overall sound I've had for some time.
It is also possibly the most enjoyable and accessible sound I've ever had, including the Naim and Densen setups.

What I liked about Naim was a lot of what TimF talked about above in terms of energy, pace etc - the good old PRaT stuff. But I find this is great for an initial 'hit' when you start to listen or to really help you get into certain types of music, but I realise now that it was quite fatiguing and intense.
I wasn't up for listening for more than an hour or so before I needed a break or lost interest.
The Densen gear fixed this somewhat, and gives a lot of the good stuff Naim gives, without being quite so full on, but the Croft is another level altogether.

For me the Croft has a few key strengths. One is certainly the very very good MM phono stage. This uses two of the three valves in the amp and is very good indeed. The other key strength for me is the overall tonality and the way it treads such a well judged line between the warmth you'd associate with valves and the proper drive and pace of solid state. I can comfortably settle in for a long listen, whilst at the same time being drawn well into the music. It does detail but without being too analytical, does warmth without being too mushy. A really good balance.

I do think it would be a very strong choice for you, and in particular with the Spendors. The Hales I run are a big sealed three way speaker. 10" bass drivers in their own enclosures within the speaker. The Croft really seems to suit sealed boxes somehow and drives and controls these really well. I'm really keen to try a set of little sealed boxes with the Croft. A pair of Harbeths or perhaps some Spendors such as yours or the SA1 could possibly be a perfect match.

I hope that helps. Under normal circumstances you'd be very welcome to come have a listen, but we might not have that option for at least a little while.
 
I always tell this story so forgive me if you've heard it before. I had the phono integrated for little while, with Harbeth C7s. I found it lovely sounding overall - very vivid imaging in particular - and the phono section was very good for an integrated (although I preferred my Rega Aria). But with certain instruments it did not sound right: piano sounded toy-like, strings compressed and squeaky, voices almost distorted.

I should say that it didn't sound this way to other listeners, so I think it depends on your own personal niggles. Personally I couldn't live with it. I'd still like another go with the Croft sound, but doing it again I'd try the phono pre into a no-nonsense power amp.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. Lots there to think about.

The issue here, as so often, is trying to find a particular solution for a particular room, in this case a small loft area where I sit only six or seven feet from the speakers. That means I play at low volumes, typically no more than around 50db.

The sealed-box Spendors addressed the speaker issue, as they banished the bass boom and are vivid at low volumes. But they also reveal exactly what’s going on further down the line, and what they tell me about the Naim Uniti is that as an amplifier it’s a bit grey and two-dimensional until it gets well above that 50db level. So I’ve reverted to using my old Cyrus 1, which is crystal clear, vibrant and three-dimensional at low volumes, but starts to strain the moment it goes any louder. It also offers very little fine volume control.

I’ve tried a few other amps. The Rega Brio was too opaque and had too little volume control. An Exposure 2010s2 could have been a winner but was ultimately too big-boned and had too little volume control. A Creek 50a was just bland though the volume control was pretty good.

So looking around I’ve alighted on the Croft as its blend of passive preamp, solid state power and tubes seems to promise a good balance of detail, control and warmth. Plus I understand Glenn Croft is happy to tweak the volume pots to give more gain. The decent phono stage could be the cherry on top. If it’s at the level of the Cyrus phono stage, that’s good enough for me. Of course, it would be best to go and listen to one but I believe there are no dealers in London. Then again my experience of demos is that the kit never the sounds the same in my room.

Where does that leave me? I can continue on the preloved merry-go-round until, presumably, I hit a winner. Or I stake everything on something like the Croft. All I know is that I want to stop thinking about hifi, just relax listening to music, and find something more productive to spend my disposable cash on. Cheers!

ps. Toy-like pianos? Sean, have you been listening to a lot of RVG Blue Note recordings?
 
I certainly do think the Croft can get you off the merry-go-round, sometimes it can be hard just to relax and allow that though!

Just as a side example, I love my much more expensive LinnenberG mono amps and DAC-preamp, but every once in awhile, I change things up to the Croft Micro 25/Series 7 amps, with my Naim streamer, and with either my Duevel Venus or WLM La Scala’s, things sound sublime. I can listen to the system through the Croft’s and not miss a beat, and really, I could simply live with it and have no worries, it charms me. Not that more expensive pieces mean a thing really, just saying. FWIW....
 
I always tell this story so forgive me if you've heard it before. I had the phono integrated for little while, with Harbeth C7s. I found it lovely sounding overall - very vivid imaging in particular - and the phono section was very good for an integrated (although I preferred my Rega Aria). But with certain instruments it did not sound right: piano sounded toy-like, strings compressed and squeaky, voices almost distorted.

I should say that it didn't sound this way to other listeners, so I think it depends on your own personal niggles. Personally I couldn't live with it. I'd still like another go with the Croft sound, but doing it again I'd try the phono pre into a no-nonsense power amp.

Distortion is quite high from the power amps (whether in an integrated or separate) and this could well account for your findings.
 
Distortion is quite high from the power amps (whether in an integrated or separate) and this could well account for your findings.

Glenn's website says that the integrated is basically a series 7 power amp' with a passive pre', plus or minus a MM phono stage (which some websites strangely suggest uses just one ECC83). The integrated models have been around a while but might be one of the few models not to have changed much since introduction.
 
Glenn's website says that the integrated is basically a series 7 power amp' with a passive pre', plus or minus a MM phono stage (which some websites strangely suggest uses just one ECC83). The integrated models have been around a while but might be one of the few models not to have changed much since introduction.

I'm not sure what you're getting at there Vinny? I'm saying the integrateds and power amps are likely the same as far as the power amp section goes.
 
I have one and I love it. A unique and very organic sounding amp. Dynamic and natural sounding to my ears. The phono stage is remarkable.
 
Had a line integrate (though non-standard with active pre, and eventual power upgrade) and after various box swappings very recently got a Micro 25R with phono stage (going in to a non-Croft power amp).

Totally agree with the organic, dynamic, and natural references. Lovely tone.

Re the integrated, not the snappiest imaging in the world, but still a very pleasant, fluid picture.

Moreover, I really like the build and operation. Simple but stylish looks; easily repaired or upgraded; and nicely tactile. Though I am a sucker for a toggle switch. Terrific value too.

As above, great amps for getting off the merry-go-round. Especially on reflection.
 
I’ve got the 25r pre into a Parasound Halo and as mentioned by Fretbuzz this is a good combo, the phono stage is particularly good in comparison with other stages I’ve tried including various Graham Slee. I had a Croft 7R power and an integrated R before this and personally prefer the mix of Croft pre and hefty solid state power. The only change I’m considering now is swapping the 25R for the RS.
 
Do we know what upgrade options might exist for the Phono Integrated as a unit? Mine has had the output stage upgraded to 90wpc, which I think is actually something to do with the power supply and I think I have read about the pre amp stage being converted to active - are those the routes?..
 


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