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Brexit: give me a positive effect... III

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One more positive effect is that racists and bigots out themselves voluntarily, shortcutting the need to follow what they say and enabling a rapid blocking/ignoring (depending on platform)

Obviously the entire 'enabling fascists' bit has a number of drawbacks, especially when they get into Government.
 
Kirk said:
Can you direct me/us to the relevant post?
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I could, but I'm not your secretary.

i.j.russell said:
I don’t know anyone who advocates an open door immigration policy.
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Equally I don't personally know anyone who advocates "kicking them all out" and/or "not letting anyone in". I'm sure there are such people, possibly even in the current govt, but I don't know any and I didn't help them win a seat.

i.j.russell said:
We have always had complete control over non-EU immigration and could have implemented the 3 month rule that is applied in most EU countries for EU migrants.
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Agreed. Just to add the choice of implementing a 3 month rule for EU migrants is not the same as having complete control.

i.j.russell said:
The new immigration policy being introduced by the Tories is designed to allow highly paid people to come and work in the UK from anywhere in the world but do not take into account the type of immigration that we currently need. We rely on immigration to cover ‘low skill’ roles that our citizens don’t want to do. Immigration has been necessary to provide workers who pay tax.
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That's typical Conservative mismanagement and flawed way of thinking. Hopefully if people do the right thing the tories won't always be in govt and another party in govt will manage things very differently.

i.j.russell said:
What we haven’t seen for over 20 years is investment in infrastructure particularly housing, transport and public services offered by local councils.
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Couldn't agree more. However, this is generally not the fault of local councils, it's to do with central govt.

i.j.russell said:
Brexit is the result of blaming the EU and immigrants for all of our problems.
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That's far too simple, imo. Brexit is the result of many things, for example, unnecessary austerity set the conditions for a leave outcome, imo. It is about the lack of opportunity brought about by that lack of investment and everything else you mentioned in your previous paragraph. This is far more important than negative campaigning against the EU, even if it's gone on for years in the far right media. Of course, intransigence of the EU hasn't helped matters when there has been talk of "reform from within", this is great ammunition for the far right media.
 
eternumviti said:
Indeed, the hospitals wouldn't be able to run without immigrant workers with or without a pandemic.

I wonder if the government will now commit to financing NHS training schemes in order to source staff from the UK rather than letting foreign governments pay for the training and then importing the staff.
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“Help the poor foreign governments”.
 
stevec67 said:
Part of the drive for doctor s etc to move around is the need for them to gain expert skills in certain areas. With the best will in the world you are not getting this in Co Mayo. Not everyone can go to Dublin or Cork, so off you go to Manchester, Birmingham, London where you get the big populations and see more cases.
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You are absolutely correct Steve I should have mentioned that. My daughter has explained that to me in great detail:D
She is a physio and that profession moves around a lot for experience by choice but the Doctors are sent all over Ireland and as you outlined a lot go abroad to help specialise and get the volume of cases and experience. I had a narrower view of the profession until I see now what they go through. It is bloody tough and involves a lot of upheaval to learn and excel at the profession.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
The post above seems to be the one which Brian is relying on as his explanation of what he understands the term 'hard remainer' to be. It's essentially the same as what I put in post #1036:



I've no real idea why Brian is so coy about it. Not why he's so reluctant to repeat or clarify the point himself when people don't understand. So I've done it for him.

You're welcome, Brian.
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Thanks SPT, much appreciated. Judging by Brian's reply to my request, I'm guessing passive aggressive/angry - or maybe he's just having a bad day.
 
SteveT said:
Overcrowded NHS? Is that the same NHS that relies on immigrant workers and couldn't operate without them?

Yes, imagine if we had a serious pandemic and there weren't enough immigrant workers to keep the hospitals running.

This lies at the center of any discussion regarding Brexit. If I was being charitable I would say you were being naive or disingenuous but you are not. You are simply lying and talking moronic rubbish because you know fully that if this country adopted a "anyone can and live here policy" which is what so many of the Remoaners espouse the numbers that arrived on our shores would be enough to equip the NHS ten times over and there would not be the jobs for them to do. So Local Authorities would be housing them at taxpayers expense and paying them benefits which they have not earned but which would be better than they would be provided with by France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. All countries that these asylum seekers and economic migrants would have passed through to reach our shores. Even a complete and utter moron can work out that if more people are being paid benefits than there are people working to pay taxes to create these benefits the system ultimately collapses.
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I see you're using the pejorative "remoaner"?
I take it you're good with my using "brexshits" for you and your kind?
 
tuga said:
They don't just show up, they're brought. They're also being taken to Portugal as well as other parts of Europe.
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For the same reason charter flights have been commissioned by UK farmers to bring Romanian pickers into Britain this year. He’ll be giving it the “ere! Why can’t they stay in their own country?!” while shoving a strawberry picked by one of them into his mouth.
 
tonerei said:
Same over here. The light was shone on it at the start of Covid as people were complaining about all these europeans flying in to Dublin when lock down was underway.

What CB fails to assimilate or consider is that after Brexit it probably is not going to be as attractive or easy for these workers to come to Britain for this work. Currency exchange fluctuation, costs, paperwork etc. I would guess that costs will rise leading to higher costs for food in the shops. The UK gov as discussed above are going for a points based system which suggests they are looking for specific higher skilled people to fill gaps. One could surmise that they expect the gap in food pickers would be filled by local workers.

BTW as most know this has been explained numerous times but the point is never grasped.
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Minimum wage in Romania is 5594 Euros pa. It will be a while before cohesion subsidies and investments lift them closer to Western levels.
 
Colin Barron said:
Minimum wage in Romania is 5594 Euros pa. It will be a while before cohesion subsidies and investments lift them closer to Western levels.
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Not sure what your point is? You are super hard brexiteer ( I use hard just as a moniker like used by others to describe remainers ;) might as well play the opposition with the same tactics) I was under the impression your world vision was no immigrants are required they are taking our jobs/benefits. You do understand that living costs are a factor for anybody who might live in a country with a lower minimum wage? It is difficult to reconcile your keep them out take back control with your post. Sure they will come anyway because their minimum wage is less than the UK. Its kinda classic cake and eat it Brexit fantasy. economics. You maybe right but they will only come if it is worthwhile. If the farms are going to be patrolled by already well trained statue protectors it might be comfortable for them?

Apologises as I know you prefer one liners
 
tonerei said:
Not sure what your point is? You are super hard brexiteer ( I use hard just as a moniker like used by others to describe remainers ;) might as well play the opposition with the same tactics) I was under the impression your world vision was no immigrants are required they are taking our jobs/benefits. You do understand that living costs are a factor for anybody who might live in a country with a lower minimum wage? It is difficult to reconcile your keep them out take back control with your post. Sure they will come anyway because their minimum wage is less than the UK. Its kinda classic cake and eat it Brexit fantasy. economics. You maybe right but they will only come if it is worthwhile. If the farms are going to be patrolled by already well trained statue protectors it might be comfortable for them?

Apologises as I know you prefer one liners
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As i have said before i have no problem with immigration controlled by the UK government.
 
stevec67 said:
Moronic rubbish? I could never hope to compete with you, as you have just shown.
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Do you really want to or need to get to that level? I have followed these threads for a few years I don't think anybody anywhere who supported the UK staying in Europe advocated what @SteveT posted.
If they are coming for benefits it is Ireland they would be heading to as our benefit supports are far more generous than the UK. Your dole level is shocking for people who have sadly lost their jobs.

I would hazard a guess that unless a person is far far left nobody wants to support freeloaders. Benefit support is meant to be safety net for genuine cases. The same logic should apply at the top of the tree where a wealthy person should be expected to contribute a minimum level of tax. No free loaders if possible at either end of the spectrum
 
Colin Barron said:
As i have said before i have no problem with immigration controlled by the UK government.
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Kool you have that and you will get more of it come the end of the year. The point being made is listening to the farmers it seems there are problems already getting people.
Can you not see if the UK starts portraying a more openly xenophobic attitude to immigrants who are allowed in by the new points system it could impact on peoples desire to come?
Actually scratch that I know your single line views it doesn't matter.
 
Colin Barron said:
Minimum wage in Romania is 5594 Euros pa. It will be a while before cohesion subsidies and investments lift them closer to Western levels.
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Colin, you do rather like putting numbers down to back yourself up. You like numbers. You don’t have any idea what they mean though. A few days ago KrisW played into your hands. Or, rather, what could have been your hands. Kris is bright, it was a test that you failed completely. It was (as below) obviously a question asked of you.
KrisW said:
@Colin Barron - What you're referring to is the basic rule of the Single Market: the amount of access you get to the Single Market is proportional to your alignment with the rules that underpin the Single Market. The Johnson Government trying to present the basic principle of the free trade zone (in fact, the basic principle of any free trade zone) as a point that may be negotiated away is exactly what I'm talking about: they've been drawn to play Real Madrid, but their strategy is basically to insist that the offside rule should be waived for their team only, so that they can walk off without defeat when such an unrealistic demand is not met.

The rules of the Single Market are clear, and were never up for change. It was up to the UK negotiating team to work within that set of rules and concede access in some sectors in exchange for more complete access in others. Negotiations with other nations will follow exactly the same pattern. That's a hard job, and it will produce winners and losers domestically, and that's why the Tories are avoiding it.

It'd be funny seeing the Tories pretending to care about the fishing industry if the consequences weren't so serious. The UK imports two thirds of its domestic fish consumption, and exports 75% of its fishing catch. Current EU membership gives the UK access to 30% of fishing stocks in its waters. (those are UK government figures). So, using facts, let's do some maths. There's plainly a domestic demand for 7.5% of the UK's national fishing stocks (that's the 25% of the available 30% that UK boats catch that doesn't go abroad), so the livelihood of fishermen depends on the ability to sell the much larger portion. Being able to double the amount of fish landed will not increase the domestic demand for that fish because the two-thirds that are imported are species that are not caught in UK waters, so cannot be substituted. So, unless there's easy access to export markets (of which the EU is by far the largest, and the only practical one for fresh or frozen fish), you'll have a glut that will drive down prices and push small fishermen out of business.
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Some numbers in there eh Colin? Should have played into your hands.
Here's the response that you puked up, you even bothered to quote Kris's post as if you were trying to reply to it:
Colin Barron said:
Barnier could well be sitting with the subs as they bring on Ursula and Angela.
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Facepalm! Faced with a bit of trying to understanding what the numbers mean you fall flat on your face. The response has no bearing to the post. Colin-bot does not know how to reply! Numbers aren't black and white, they need to be thought about to understand why the numbers are what they are. What are the backgrounds to the statistics, what are the trends, what do they imply for the future?
 
eternumviti said:
Indeed, the hospitals wouldn't be able to run without immigrant workers with or without a pandemic.

I wonder if the government will now commit to financing NHS training schemes in order to source staff from the UK rather than letting foreign governments pay for the training and then importing the staff.
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That's fine and dandy in the medium to long term, but have you any idea of the lead times involved? Let me tell you; it's around three years for a nurse, ten for a GP and fifteen for a surgeon. What do you and you chum Colin B suggest we do in the meantime? I don't think either of you have a clue.
 
MikeMA said:
That's fine and dandy in the medium to long term, but have you any idea of the lead times involved? Let me tell you; it's around three years for a nurse, ten for a GP and fifteen for a surgeon. What do you and you chum Colin B suggest we do in the meantime? I don't think either of you have a clue.
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But we have to start, Mike. Fact is, we should never have stopped investing in training. Trouble is, tories are interested only in short term profit.
 
Brian said:
But we have to start, Mike. Fact is, we should never have stopped investing in training. Trouble is, tories are interested only in short term profit.
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Agreed. My point was that even if we start properly investing in training tomorrow, it's not a quick fix, and we will be reliant on people coming from overseas to fill NHS jobs for decades to come.
 
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