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Harbeth XD - What's The Difference

Yes in case of the SHL5 plus X.P.

Bass performance of which version?

No, if you have heard the plus/plus 40th version before, because: ...the plus 40th and plus XD are virtually same speakers but re-named.
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Several M40 and SHL5

No idea if MK 1,2 or whatever
All of them clearly had problems keeping a tune right, basnotes were slow or boomy.

Once the dem were managed by AS himself, I eyed panic from him, people just left room fast again.

A friend had the SHL5 and deeply regretted the investment based on internet ravings.
I might accept some compromises in bas performance with cheaper priced loudspeakers, but these are not cheap at all, how much are M40 ?

A pity really as their smaller models are in some ways stunning.
 
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Alan Shaw is a brilliant marketing man whose arguments around cables/amplifiers etc are consistently contradicted by himself. His Anniversary models and now XD variants prove this. Do as I say and not as I do seems to be his philosophy.

Spent some time on the HUG when I went through a few pairs of Harbeths and was ripped apart by the man himself when I went against the grain.Left a sour taste. You might be able to tell....

I won’t be going back - to the HUG or Harbeth Speakers.

Yeah, free speech seem to be a problem for some forum administrators
 
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I believe a high percentage of Harbeths get exported. With drop in £ it is logical to raise domestic price.
 
Just had a short comparison between Harbeth SHL5+ Anniversary and the new SHL5+ XD. They are certainly not the same speakers, though visually they appear similar. XD have more pronounced highs, seem to be more detailed and aggressive, the bass also sounded tighter and better. They're still need to burn in though. Overall I liked the XD very much. Considering the price of the speakers, I am disappointed with the cheaper look of the plugs. There's also visible foam inside the air hole.

I think it's been repeated upthread, but the HL5+ was 'improved' by Harbeth for the anniversary. That latter speaker was a limited edition with fancier finish and fittings and a series of 'improvements' unspecified but confirmed by Alan Shaw as being done to get the 5 series as good as he could make, price not withstanding. It was, a heftier price.

I auditioned both and bought the anniversary exactly because i felt that those extra trimmings were worth the cost and it will hold it's value as a limited addition. At the time of audition, I wrote that the Anniversary sounded about 5-10% 'better' than the +, which itself was about 30% 'better' than the older HL5. Once the Anniversary edition were sold out, Harbeth wanted to keep the sound improvements and so have produced the XD range with all that went on inside (AS is still not saying exactly what happened, but which designer does reveal all his secrets?), but without the fancy trimmings. I would have expected the price to be between the 5+ and the Anni but I'm not certain what is happening with markets and sales so?? The foam in the hole is the internal foam damping in the speaker itself, and the hole (port) always shows what is inside a speaker. Just replace the grilles as AS intends to hide it.
 
Certainly with the anniversaries, the 30's and P3's had amendments to crossover apart from different brands of components. On inspection, I don't think the Plus did...

Anecdotally, it seems that many reviewers preferred the standard P3's. Though, that said, a dealer in Europe told me the majority of his customers, himself too, preferred the standard 5 Plus in comparison, so who knows...Maybe it's model variation, maybe if you put two sets of any speaker model beside each other you'd likely prefer one by virtue of placement.

The value proposition of 30.1 (approx 2.8k now) vs 30.2XD (4.2k) will be obvious for most...
 
I'm interested in the existing c7es-3 and are on my shortlist for auditioning but the price hike, putting aside budget, just doesn't look good value to me. Of course everyone has different views on value.
 
I think it's been repeated upthread, but the HL5+ was 'improved' by Harbeth for the anniversary. That latter speaker was a limited edition with fancier finish and fittings and a series of 'improvements' unspecified but confirmed by Alan Shaw as being done to get the 5 series as good as he could make, price not withstanding. It was, a heftier price.
He overworked the crossover again, the SHL5+40th.A.E. measures different compared to the SHL5+

The foam in the hole is the internal foam damping in the speaker itself, and the hole (port) always shows what is inside a speaker.
No, there are some SHL5+40th.A.E. out there with a foam ring inside the port.

If Harbeth doesn't lower the price compared to the 40th.A.E. it will be unfair in my eyes. They went from bi-Wire to single which is cheaper and because the WBT speaker binding posts are very expansive the price has to be lower for my understanding.
 
I love Harbeth speakers - I have HLP3ES2s, HLP3ESRs and M30s - but this is just another excuse for a price hike. Nothing to do with hi-fi - there will be no improvements - and If I owned Harbeth.co.uk I'd do the same: screw the consumers until they squeaked and sales dropped of, and then back off a bit and try again later, and pray my customers didn't all move to Rogers, Stirling or what have you. One day the Harbeth business model will go tits up.
 
One of the best qualities, from a commercial perspective, of the late David Wilson was his ability to sell the same speakers to the same people over and over again. The media was instrumental but credit is owed where credit is due.
Alan Shaw is competing for the great British audio salesman cup but still facing tough competition from the late Julian Vereker and AN's one and only Peter Qvortrup.

That said, there were measureable & audible changes to performance between:

M30 & M30.x
Super HL5 & Super HL5+
M40 & M40.x

One example:

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@tuga If somehow, unbeknownst to 30.1 owner, you switched out their speakers and stuck in some older 30's, I doubt they would notice. Probably not readily anyways...
 
Aren’t most Harbeth models a rehash of old BBC designs? They are not as a business exactly at the forefront of speaker design.

Alan Shaw has always been very open about the debt that Harbeth speakers owe to the work of the BBC research department, maintaining that his approach is evolutionary. Naturally he maintains that's the best approach.

If you used phrases like "rehash of old BBC designs" on the old HUG, I'm not surprised he had a go. If you were a member when REG ruled the roost, he'd have had a swing at you too.
 
Alan Shaw has always been very open about the debt that Harbeth speakers owe to the work of the BBC research department, maintaining that his approach is evolutionary. Naturally he maintains that's the best approach.

If you used phrases like "rehash of old BBC designs" on the old HUG, I'm not surprised he had a go. If you were a member when REG ruled the roost, he'd have had a swing at you too.

I didn't say anything anywhere near as "controversial" as this. What I challenged AS on was not even HiFi related and his response was like a father dressing down a child for his naiivity and foolishness to even challenge what he said.

I'm astounded that he hasn't lost many customers (maybe he has) over the years.

Never heard of REG.
 
@tuga If somehow, unbeknownst to 30.1 owner, you switched out their speakers and stuck in some older 30's, I doubt they would notice. Probably not readily anyways...

Possibly.
But do note that the frequency response measurement I posted has been brutally smoothed (1/1 octave).
The dips at 600Hz and in the presence region of the M30 are more significant than one can deduce from the plot.
 
I didn't say anything anywhere near as "controversial" as this. What I challenged AS on was not even HiFi related and his response was like a father dressing down a child for his naiivity and foolishness to even challenge what he said.

I'm astounded that he hasn't lost many customers (maybe he has) over the years.

Never heard of REG.

Robert E Greene. Of The Absolute Sound. Leading light in the HUG pre-2005. Hugely knowledgeable but could make Alan Shaw seem positively cuddly. Left in 2005 to set up his own forum (on Yahoo) having squashed a few toes. (I have a long memory for some things.)
 
XD have more pronounced highs, seem to be more detailed and aggressive, the bass also sounded tighter and better.
This is similar to how I heard the Ces7 XD recently at Bristol. They had more detail in the highs and I would agree they were exciting to listen too.
I understand they have a new crossover.
 
Interesting discussion. I've been trying to find out some more information here and elsewhere on the new XD models but not yet? Unfortunately HUG is a sad and quite depressing place. If anyone has seen a review, this would be good to know. As far as I understand the new XDs are indeed more or less just the same as the previous models with lowered production costs (but higher prices) with some more changes to the P3ESR only? Curious to see what is meant by Extended Definition?
 
P3ESR XD seems to be an update. The rest are basically 40th anniversary spec minus some of the bling.

If you're in the market and can find good deals on anniversaries or standard range then you'd do well to go for them.
 
P3ESR XD seems to be an update. The rest are basically 40th anniversary spec minus some of the bling.

If you're in the market and can find good deals on anniversaries or standard range then you'd do well to go for them.
Correct, from what I’ve been told from very reliable sources.
 


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