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Tyres.

Nah, it's a rubbish way to look for fun; ime; because it's a deliberate 'pitch-in/provoked, hope for best scenario'.

There's only one undo route, which you better damn well hope is still available when you need it (= more grip yet available if you add more throttle to load the back end up, else you need far more run-off space;), it's slow overall, and (not least) all therefore v poor form on public roads if you are looking for engagement in driving. meanwhile the whole time the steering feedback is les than it could be - because FWD.

tl;dr: Fun like a dog dragging its arse around behind it, because it has worms sort of amusing, really.

(and yes I have owned a couple of quick cars set-up for this sort of behaviour ... )
 
I'd look at (putting new tyres on the back) in terms of reducing the possibility of catastrophic oversteer, not in terms of increasing understeer.



I'd say it means more grip when it counts which is when it's wet. Oversteer in a FWD car on dry pavement should be a very rare event (I hope).


It must take some pretty odd conditions for your f/r respective tread depths to differ enough for that to matter. If you're doing it right they should be close enough to equal, rendering it moot.
 
Lift off FWD oversteer not uncommon.

Yes it is. It is extremely uncommon.

Youtoobers and telly shows are very deliberately provoking it, and if you got caught by the rozzers doing that on a public road in the U.K. you’d not have any explaining to do. You’d just wait for your court date, and don’t drive yourself to court as you’d be relying on someone else to get you home again.

Don’t let your tread go too low, don’t drive like an idiot, leave the electronics on.
If you want to learn or show off oversteery driving, get on a track.
 
Yes it is. It is extremely uncommon.

Youtoobers and telly shows are very deliberately provoking it, and if you got caught by the rozzers doing that on a public road in the U.K. you’d not have any explaining to do. You’d just wait for your court date, and don’t drive yourself to court as you’d be relying on someone else to get you home again.

Don’t let your tread go too low, don’t drive like an idiot, leave the electronics on.
If you want to learn or show off oversteery driving, get on a track.

Obviously you never drove a 205gti.

Unintentional lift off oversteer on the road not uncommon - in addition to motorway aquaplaning, we have tightening radius bends to catch out the unwary; we have incidents (kids, animals, trees falling etc mid bend) that can all cause a lift-off-tail-out moment where the physics can override all tread, esp, skills, awareness etc. Tis the very nature of many accidents.

Without data, I'd hazard a guess that were one able to analyse RTA and insurance stats, there would be plenty more accidents with causes attributed to above 'unintential unprovoked' than Barry boys 'provoked' Saturday night specials.
 
Obviously you never drove a 205gti.

Unintentional lift off oversteer on the road not uncommon - in addition to motorway aquaplaning, we have tightening radius bends to catch out the unwary; we have incidents (kids, animals, trees falling etc mid bend) that can all cause a lift-off-tail-out moment where the physics can override all tread, esp, skills, awareness etc. Tis the very nature of many accidents.

Without data, I'd hazard a guess that were one able to analyse RTA and insurance stats, there would be plenty more accidents with causes attributed to above 'unintential unprovoked' than Barry boys 'provoked' Saturday night specials.
I never drove a 205GTi, but I heard the stories and I know it was notorious for this.

But that was then and this is now, and very few current models bite in the way the 205GTi did, and ASR tends to intervene to prevent it in a fair few scenarios, too. So yer actual risk of the tail wagging the dog, for yer common or garden hatchback, SUV or whatever, is pretty modest.
 
Obviously you never drove a 205gti.

Unintentional lift off oversteer on the road not uncommon - in addition to motorway aquaplaning, we have tightening radius bends to catch out the unwary; we have incidents (kids, animals, trees falling etc mid bend) that can all cause a lift-off-tail-out moment where the physics can override all tread, esp, skills, awareness etc. Tis the very nature of many accidents.

Without data, I'd hazard a guess that were one able to analyse RTA and insurance stats, there would be plenty more accidents with causes attributed to above 'unintential unprovoked' than Barry boys 'provoked' Saturday night specials.

I drove a few 205 GTIs, and owned a 106 Rallye. I managed to intentionally drive like a buffoon and induced lift off oversteer, but, it has no place on a public road. And remember, the 205 GTI went out of production nearly thirty years ago, so it’s about as relevant as a Morris Minor.
 
I never drove a 205GTi, but I heard the stories and I know it was notorious for this.

But that was then and this is now, and very few current models bite in the way the 205GTi did, and ASR tends to intervene to prevent it in a fair few scenarios, too. So yer actual risk of the tail wagging the dog, for yer common or garden hatchback, SUV or whatever, is pretty modest.

Majority of cars on the road are FWD. Ergo majority of accidents are also FWD. You are a thinking man - so do you think that lift off oversteer thereby overcoming the laws of physics, tread depth, electronic systems, etc - would be an insignificant factor within any of those stats? (along with meeting the unexpected, driver error, and all the other factors etc) -

unprovoked slide through lift off. Of course it driver error, but its also snap over steer. I'd say it happens quite often out there, even on ESP equipped cars with their best tyres on rear.

Such as:


Hardly extreme speed and recklessness, but driver error....could also be the unwary, the inexperienced, child or deer runs out, the unlucky and so on. But modern FWD cars can bite.
 
Such as:


Hardly extreme speed and recklessness, but driver error....could also be the unwary, the inexperienced, child or deer runs out, the unlucky and so on. But modern FWD cars can bite.
Pretty reckless, overtaking on a left hand curve. The 'camera' car wasn't dawdling (I'd estimate maybe 50-ish?) and the overtaking car, the Fiesta ST, was clearly doing >20mph more than the camera car so probably exceeding the national speed limit by some margin.

And the Fiesta ST is, I think, one of the crop that is indeed more prone to lift-off oversteer. Rather more so than the cooking Fiesta and I suspect it's dialled-in a bit because the buyers like a bit of that lairiness.
 
It really does depend on your budget. I’d never put anything less than tyres from the big companies on any car. If you’re after long life, comfort, low noise, and of course decent grip/traction, Chinese ditchfinders probably aren’t going to satisfy.

There’ll always be people praising the virtues of Teflon No-Grips, especially when they’re new, but it’s amazing how easily these companies fool people just by making the carcass thicker (heavier) and tread deeper.

If you buy, say, four new Continentals now, drive normally and avoid punctures, you’d probably see at least six years out of them at your annual mileage. And you’d probably be happier in the meantime.

This.

Michelin cross climates are a good idea if you drive all year in most weather conditions.
 
Majority of cars on the road are FWD. Ergo majority of accidents are also FWD. You are a thinking man - so do you think that lift off oversteer thereby overcoming the laws of physics, tread depth, electronic systems, etc - would be an insignificant factor within any of those stats? (along with meeting the unexpected, driver error, and all the other factors etc) -

unprovoked slide through lift off. Of course it driver error, but its also snap over steer. I'd say it happens quite often out there, even on ESP equipped cars with their best tyres on rear.

Such as:


Hardly extreme speed and recklessness, but driver error....could also be the unwary, the inexperienced, child or deer runs out, the unlucky and so on. But modern FWD cars can bite.

What were his tyres like? What was the road surface like? Did he have the electronics turned to Hero mode? Was he a complete prick?
 
Liftoff oversteer happens on AWD cars too, but I agree you really need to be pushing it hard to make that happen, like entering into a tightening bend way too fast.
 
I managed to achieve lift off oversteer once in a FWD car by the simple means of driving like a tw*t on a greasy corner and then panicking as I realized I was too fast, but it came back in one go. The same thing in a RWD car is much easier because of course you are braking the rear wheels so it will slide. The simple fact that you can do it if you try really, really hard doesn't mean that it's a common occurrence. The car in question was a sporty Fiesta Mk 2, subsequent FWD cars of mine have been much more prone to ploughing straight on. Surprisingly this included a n Alfa 33, which was very boring in the handling department considering the brand.
 
Yep. I am highly amused by the number of folk on here who seem to think that they 'need' 'super tyres' to save them from their own lunatic driving.
 
Yep. I am highly amused by the number of folk on here who seem to think that they 'need' 'super tyres' to save them from their own lunatic driving.

Not quite sure which folk you’re aiming this at, but my predilection for decent tyres is essentially about getting the best grip for cornering and braking at any speed.
 
Yep. I am highly amused by the number of folk on here who seem to think that they 'need' 'super tyres' to save them from their own lunatic driving.
To be fair Mull, I think the point being made is that tyres make a BIG difference to how any vehicle feels and behaves on the road. As a hard up 20 something I would fit anything I could afford including remolds on one occasion. As I started to appreciate how much difference tyres made, I began using the best I could afford even if it stretched the budget a bit. This applies to all vehicles and over the years I have experienced the difference tyres make on bikes, motorbikes, cars and vans.
 
Liftoff oversteer happens on AWD cars too, but I agree you really need to be pushing it hard to make that happen, like entering into a tightening bend way too fast.
On the subject of loss of control, this accident scene is a bit of a surprise to me. Shortly after noon, in a densely built up urban area, 40mph and adjoining 30mph stretch, traffic lights, pedestrian refuge? visible, pedestrian reported involved and what appears to be the conversion of a hell of a lot of kinetic energy causing death. Given the environmental constraints just described, how the hell do you achieve this?

Romford crash: Two dead in seven-vehicle collision https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51577836

via Imgflip Meme Generator

on the left- car flipped, car in front rear-ended, in front of that Range Rover reported as “undamaged” ( stopped at pedestrian crossing? A pedestrian was injured). On the right two cars with frontal damage, one catastrophic looking, 2 occupants of vehicle(s) pronounced dead at scene.
 


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