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Next Labour Leader II

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This has escalated again.

Labour lost because of Corbyn & Brexit. Labour members voted to keep Corbyn as their leader, the attempted coup against him was pathetic.

Has any Labour member admitted to being wrong about Corbyn & regretful of voting for him?

The parliamentary shenanigans by the likes of Cooper also did harm to Labour even though I supported what she was trying to do.

To say that Labour lost because it was divided seems bizarre, the Torys were equally divided.

I think some of Labours policies didn’t play well, particularly free broadband. Not a massive surprise that it was met with derision & opposition.

At least the current crop of candidates are an improvement, especially Nandy & Starmer. If Burgon gets anywhere near the top table I will struggle to support Labour in the future & its membership will get what they deserve.
 
h.g. said:
Hang on a mo these militant moderates were only invented a few posts ago. Give them a chance to notice and pop into existence, make contact with each other, pull together what is important, attract support from the general population, support from within the political system, etc... This is going to take at least a few more pages.

Given labour has a couple of hundred MPs we first need to sort out whether it is going to remain a hard left controlled party or revert to a moderate left party and hence how much of a part it would play in this militant moderate movement.
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lol
 
Woodface said:
To say that Labour lost because it was divided seems bizarre, the Torys were equally divided.
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This is an interesting point. Before the referendum I went along with the narrative that Europe was most potentially damaging to the Tories. It has proved to be far more damaging for Labour. It turns out it was only damaging to the Tory PLP, not the bulk of their members or voters. Especially when it became the Brexit Party. It wasn't quite as damaging to the Labour PLP as Tory PLP but has proved disasterously divisive at member/voter level, possibly even terminal.
 
Brian said:
Ah, so people didn't vote to "get brexit done", after all.
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That was a factor, but if you look at the polls the main reason people didn’t vote Labour was Corbyn. In casual conversations where the talk turned to Labour I’ve never, and I mean -never-, heard anyone have a good word to say about Corbyn. That includes from lifelong Labour voters.
 
Seanm said:
There’s almost nothing Tories won’t get uptight and resentful about. I can understand people being scornful about a leadership contest in a party they don’t support, but the outrage is weird.
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What outrage? It's pure farce and comedy, and, if i was Tory, it would be hilarious in a piss-up-in-brewery type way.

A Shambles.
 
ks.234 said:
That really is the point, until labour voters stop this bickering, start sharing some blame, start to show some unity, Johnson will be laughing all the way to his next majority
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To my mind as a life-long centre-left/progressive floating voter it isn’t the voters they should be looking at. Labour lost the election because they entirely failed to make a coherent argument that people actually wanted to get behind. That’s 100% on them, not on those of us who were not convinced by their sales pitch!
 
SteveS1 said:
There is no moral high ground here Brian, the name calling has been all round. There is no reason to have to accept a referendum that you disagree with - or we would never have had another. If you can't oppose it through the main opposition, who are majority Remain supporters then how do you oppose anything? We are not a plebiscite democracy, at least we weren't last time I looked. There is no reason to stop opposing anything, especially something as damaging as Brexit, you do it by supporting a party that shares your aims. If Labour is not prepared to oppose on such key matters it might as well give up.
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Steve, There is no automatic right to expect the main opposition to take an opposing position on everything the sitting govt does. Sometimes they will agree on a policy, it can and should happen. In this case, a majority of the electorate voted to leave the EU and that should have been honoured from the outset by all MPs. If that had happened we would have had a GE election at some point fought on domestic policies, not on brexit.

Stunsworth said:
That was a factor, but if you look at the polls the main reason people didn’t vote Labour was Corbyn. In casual conversations where the talk turned to Labour I’ve never, and I mean -never-, heard anyone have a good word to say about Corbyn. That includes from lifelong Labour voters.
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Round and round...

Mate, if you take brexit out of the equation Labour would have done far better than they did because the policies were sound. You take Corbyn out of the picture, replaced by "a n other" for the last few years and the outcome would have been very similar, or even the same, imo. All that would have been different was the target of the smear campaign as we will see when the next Labour leader is announced.
 
And watching Starmer on Sophie Ridge this morning, if he’s the best of the bunch, they’ll be in opposition for a long time. Wooden, no personality and unwilling to say anything about policy for fear of upsetting the wrong people.
Absolutely hopeless.
 
Tony L said:
To my mind as a life-long centre-left/progressive floating voter it isn’t the voters they should be looking at. Labour lost the election because they entirely failed to make a coherent argument that people actually wanted to get behind. That’s 100% on them, not on those of us who were not convinced by their sales pitch!
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So if Labour had stood 100% for leave?
 
Tony L said:
To my mind as a life-long centre-left/progressive floating voter it isn’t the voters they should be looking at. Labour lost the election because they entirely failed to make a coherent argument that people actually wanted to get behind. That’s 100% on them, not on those of us who were not convinced by their sales pitch!
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You don’t thing the ‘thick racist’ jibe against leave voters had an adverse effect? You don’t think Swinson’s shameless politicking had an impact? If people started to look at themselves rather than projecting blame onto others who should be on the same side, perhaps it might be possible to mount a coherent opposition to Johnson.
 
doctorf said:
And watching Starmer on Sophie Ridge this morning, if he’s the best of the bunch, they’ll be in opposition for a long time. Wooden, no personality and unwilling to say anything about policy for fear of upsetting the wrong people.
Absolutely hopeless.
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No more hopeless than Dominic's puppet, Simon, yet Johnson got in on shite policies. "Get brexit done" works one time, they're going to have to do something meaningful for the low-life plebs to keep their vote and do it without upsetting the wannabe's too much.
 
Brian said:
Steve, There is no automatic right to expect the main opposition to take an opposing position on everything the sitting govt does. Sometimes they will agree on a policy, it can and should happen. In this case, a majority of the electorate voted to leave the EU and that should have been honoured from the outset by all MPs. If that had happened we would have had a GE election at some point fought on domestic policies, not on brexit.
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Might as well give up then Brian, because Brexit undermines most of what I vote Labour for. Hoping to take it out of domestic elections from now on is for the birds btw.
 
ks.234 said:
You don’t thing the ‘thick racist’ jibe against leave voters had an adverse effect?
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I imagine the "thick racists" among the leave voters may have taken offence but I just know the others would have risen above the remark and went along with the meticulously worked out Brexit plan...
 
ks.234 said:
You don’t thing the ‘thick racist’ jibe against leave voters had an adverse effect? You don’t think Swinson’s shameless politicking had an impact? If people started to look at themselves rather than projecting blame onto others who should be on the same side, perhaps it might be possible to mount a coherent opposition to Johnson.
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I assume you voted for Corbyn as leader, ‘projecting blame’ could be something you are guilty of also?
 
Woodface said:
I assume you voted for Corbyn as leader, ‘projecting blame’ could be something you are guilty of also?
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Why on earth would you ‘blame’ someone for how they voted? If your looking for blame for Corbyn’s defeat, you need to look at those who did not vote for him and others who spent so much time undermining him
 
ks.234 said:
Why on earth would you ‘blame’ someone for how they voted? If your looking for blame for Corbyn’s defeat, you need to look at those who did not vote for him and others who spent so much time undermining him
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That is nonsense, & to be clear I talking about the leadership election rather than the general election, if you voted for Corbyn you can hardly blame those who didn’t for him being a crap leader. I voted Burnham in the leadership election & Labour in the GE.

Ultimately he was a divisive figure.
 
Seanm said:
Human nature now is it. The left make very particular, very obvious mistakes. The right...well, just human nature. No one to blame, certainly no lessons to be learned.
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If there hadn't been any internal opposition to Corbyn then it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the result, he was an ineffective leader.
 
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