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Guitar talk: acoustic, bass, classical, twelve string? You name it! Pt II

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Tokai are very good indeed. Allegedly far better than real Fenders of the same era.

I’m really enjoying Mick’s blog. The only thing I felt he got wrong was not starting the video with ‘Blue’ and the black AVRI as they were initially rather than jumping straight in with the new boutique pickups. The unstated thing for those of us who regularly watch TPS is that he went from having an amazing loaner guitar and two kind of ‘meh’ ones (from his perspective) to what, for me at least, are three really great sounding guitars. The take-away from it, which I’m sure he’ll build on in the next episode, is he very, very substantially improved the two contenders and went a fair way to prove just how important the pickups are.

Also worth noting that Mick is obviously aiming to build a ‘Mick guitar’, he plays a very specific genre of blues-rock which that real ‘62 absolutely nails. If he was playing jazz, funk, shoegaze, grunge, country or whatever the choices may be different.
 
Tony L said:
Tokai are very good indeed. Allegedly far better than real Fenders of the same era.

I’m really enjoying Mick’s blog. The only thing I felt he got wrong was not starting the video with ‘Blue’ and the black AVRI as they were initially rather than jumping straight in with the new boutique pickups. The unstated thing for those of us who regularly watch TPS is that he went from having an amazing loaner guitar and two kind of ‘meh’ ones (from his perspective) to what, for me at least, are three really great sounding guitars. The take-away from it, which I’m sure he’ll build on in the next episode, is he very, very substantially improved the two contenders and went a fair way to prove just how important the pickups are.

Also worth noting that Mick is obviously aiming to build a ‘Mick guitar’, he plays a very specific genre of blues-rock which that real ‘62 absolutely nails. If he was playing jazz, funk, shoegaze, grunge, country or whatever the choices may be different.
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Totally agree...this is worth a watch..
 
FireMoon said:
No, the guy who does the guitar lessons, in this case, "Sultans of Swing".
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Ah - thanks. You'd think I'd nearly be able to spot one a mile away at this stage..:rolleyes:

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Out of curiosity - how did you know, and also - have you any idea what pickups those are that he has fitted ?
 
-alan- said:
Ah - thanks. You'd think I'd nearly be able to spot one a mile away at this stage..:rolleyes:

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Out of curiosity - how did you know, and also - have you any idea what pickups those are that he has fitted ?
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Check the truss rod cover, 2 screws no logo and the only Gibson related guitars that ever came in that finish/colour were a series of Epiphones over a decade ago, made funnily enough, in the Tokai factory. To add...sorry, no idea what the Pups are, might well be Dimarzios of some shade.
 
Thanks FM :) On a totally unrelated note...

I was raiding the local classifieds again last week. Found this Tanglewood Tomkat TE4 (series 1) not a million miles away from me.

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Cheap as chips (€120). The neck is nice - one piece set neck, Wilkinson tremolo bridge, and the action is low. Pickups are kind of meh. Supposedly a copy of a Patrick Eggle Berlin guitar. There is a later Series 2 which has a much better set of Alan Entwhistle pickups with coil splitting and fancy boost circuitry, but a different body shape. Might be worth swopping out the pickups on this one at some stage for a spare set of Tokai Pafs I have here.

Hard to resist a quilted finish all the same - even a green one :)
 
-alan- said:
Thanks FM :) On a totally unrelated note...

I was raiding the local classifieds again last week. Found this Tanglewood Tomkat TE4 (series 1) not a million miles away from me.


Cheap as chips (€120). The neck is nice - one piece set neck, Wilkinson tremolo bridge, and the action is low. Pickups are kind of meh. Supposedly a copy of a Patrick Eggle Berlin guitar. There is a later Series 2 which has a much better set of Alan Entwhistle pickups with coil splitting and fancy boost circuitry, but a different body shape. Might be worth swopping out the pickups on this one at some stage for a spare set of Tokai Pafs I have here.

Hard to resist a quilted finish all the same - even a green one :)
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Most of the tone is in the pups - but is that a 24 fret? The position of the pups along the scale makes a big difference between guitars, think LP vs SG.
 
'Tis indeed a 24 fret. Must confess I hadn't noticed :rolleyes: The scale length is 24 3/4" - same as the Les Paul, so relatively easy to bend the strings, even with 10s.

Stupidly - I never realised the positioning of the pickups made much difference, but given the obvious difference in sound between the bridge and neck pickups of course it must. Shall have to go and obsess about whether/how much the doublecut Tokais differ soundwise from the standard single-cut version now :)
 
Super collection :)

I have really grown to like those wine coloured Lesters. I think at some stage I could see myself coughing up for one with the gold hardware - not unlike like that one of yours. Originally I'd only considered older Gibson models, but in truth either an older Tokai or one of their new LC 'Custom' range would probably provide better bang for the buck, and also be less likely to suffer the dreaded head crack.

If this quilted one had gold hardware I think I'd buy it in a shot:
https://reverb.com/item/31012470-to...-dark-red-made-in-japan-no-hardcase-no-gigbag

Failing that, the 'plain' grain ones don't look too shabby either..

LC-107:
https://www.musamaailma.fi/merkit/tokai ... otelo.html?
LC-200:
https://www.musamaailma.fi/merkit/tokai ... otelo.html?
 
Just be aware that. The Custom's necks are as skinny as hell, totally different guitar to the Standard . In fact the neck on my Strat which is a vintage styled one is far closer to my Standard than the Custom which is way more akin to a Tele in terms of its neck profile. The customs also come with "Ghost frets" that is, the frets are really damnably small. I can see why the old customs were so beloved of a goodly number of Brit "prog guitarists".
 
I can't abide those tiny frets - never realised how different jumbo frets were until I got the hold of a Telecaster with jumbos and a maple neck. Something else to chalk up on the 'ideal spec' front.

Can I ask - have you had a chance to compare the Tokais to their Gibson equivalents back-to-back ? Wondering how you think they compare on a bang for your buck basis.
 
I wouldn't compare either of my Tokai lesters to a Gibson standard made in the last 15-20 years because the Tokias are actually replicas of specific Lesters and the Gibsons are copies of their own guitars with major changes to the specs you buy to a Gibson for without them telling you. For Gibson to have the brass neck to claim,as their fanboys do on forums that; "They were/are improvements" is taking the rise and then some. Weight relief was about cutting costs, as is flattening the curve round the selector switch to make them easier to CNC. Chuck in short tenons with, more often than not shims added to pack it out, because the fit was often so bad and it's not really fair to compare a proper Lester as made by Tokai to a knock off made by the company that owns the name.

To be fair to Gibson, since the new management, have taken over they have sorted that mess out however it leaves 1000s of substandard guitars commanding high second hand prices solely because of the name on the headstock.

To give you some idea of how bad it was. The person who does my luthier work , the shop they work out of sells on average, one Gibson les Paul a month. Going back about a decade they had every single Lester they'd sold over the space of a year, returned because the finishes on them had failed within a year of purchase. The bottom line is, the shape of the Les Paul makes it difficult to mass produce by anyone but skilled luthiers. Never forget that, Tokai Burny and Greco entered to market to fulfil a need. Japanese guitar players would not buy 1970s Gibson Lesters because they had such a terrible QC reputation and the pre-cessation models were already going for daft money in Japan.

It always makes me chuckle when people pick up my Tokai Standard start playing it and then almost inevitably say. "It's just like a proper Standard isn't it?"

I'm not knocking Gibson as brand either, the two best guitars I have ever played were a Gibson double cut and Gibson Non reverse Firebird. The reason Gibson quit making Lesters in was it 62? Was that, even at 375 bucks a shot in the early 60s, they were not economic to make.The general consensus seems to be that, currently, for 2 grand and below FGN and Maybach, made in Czekia, are the best single cuts.
 
FireMoon said:
The customs also come with "Ghost frets" that is, the frets are really damnably small. I can see why the old customs were so beloved of a goodly number of Brit "prog guitarists".
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Most Customs don't have small frets, they just have low ones. Wide as bass frets, but filed down until they're almost flush with the ebony. The old Gibson catalogues called them "Fretless Wonders".
 
FireMoon said:
I wouldn't compare either of my Tokai lesters to a Gibson standard made in the last 15-20 years because the Tokias are actually replicas of specific Lesters and the Gibsons are copies of their own guitars with major changes to the specs you buy to a Gibson for without them telling you. For Gibson to have the brass neck to claim,as their fanboys do on forums that; "They were/are improvements" is taking the rise and then some. Weight relief was about cutting costs, as is flattening the curve round the selector switch to make them easier to CNC. Chuck in short tenons with, more often than not shims added to pack it out, because the fit was often so bad and it's not really fair to compare a proper Lester as made by Tokai to a knock off made by the company that owns the name.

To be fair to Gibson, since the new management, have taken over they have sorted that mess out however it leaves 1000s of substandard guitars commanding high second hand prices solely because of the name on the headstock.

To give you some idea of how bad it was. The person who does my luthier work , the shop they work out of sells on average, one Gibson les Paul a month. Going back about a decade they had every single Lester they'd sold over the space of a year, returned because the finishes on them had failed within a year of purchase. The bottom line is, the shape of the Les Paul makes it difficult to mass produce by anyone but skilled luthiers. Never forget that, Tokai Burny and Greco entered to market to fulfil a need. Japanese guitar players would not buy 1970s Gibson Lesters because they had such a terrible QC reputation and the pre-cessation models were already going for daft money in Japan.

It always makes me chuckle when people pick up my Tokai Standard start playing it and then almost inevitably say. "It's just like a proper Standard isn't it?"

I'm not knocking Gibson as brand either, the two best guitars I have ever played were a Gibson double cut and Gibson Non reverse Firebird. The reason Gibson quit making Lesters in was it 62? Was that, even at 375 bucks a shot in the early 60s, they were not economic to make.The general consensus seems to be that, currently, for 2 grand and below FGN and Maybach, made in Czekia, are the best single cuts.
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That's enlightening and educational - thanks. much appreciated. Makes buying a s/h Gibson LP a bit of a minefield in terms of trying to gauge both the spec and also the build quality.

I've learned to check for things like original electronics, tenon length, and look for veneered as oppose to solid maple caps on the Tokais. I guess the diligent buyer has to set aside any preconceptions and be prepared to do that - as well as check the finish and playability - on any high end LP no matter what the brand.

edit: you have me googling FGN now as well..and they do a Wine red Lester..

https://www.thomann.de/ie/fgn_michael_sagmeister_special.htm
 
If looking for a dual humbucker LP-ish guitar I’d look very closely at the Yamaha SG range too, in fact I really wish I did and I’m sure I’d very happily swap my 2005 Std for a similarly nice condition Japanese SG1000.

PS How do folk here think about adding a ‘musical instruments’ room to the classified area? I suspect we have enough musos here of all types for it to get some traffic and I’ve certainly got loads of stuff I can list for sale or swaps, e.g. for guitar/bass I’ve come to the conclusion the only stuff I own and really care about are the Shergolds & Yamahas, the rest can go! A few pedals etc too.
 
Tony L said:
How do folk here think about adding a ‘musical instruments’ room to the classified area? I suspect we have enough musos here of all types for it to get some traffic and I’ve certainly got loads of stuff I can list for sale or swaps, e.g. for guitar/bass I’ve come to the conclusion the only stuff I own and really care about are the Shergolds & Yamahas, the rest can go! A few pedals etc too.
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Sold!
 
Would work for me as well as I have at least one amp and a bunch of pedals I need to get rid of.
 
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