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UK Productivity Crisis

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This just suggests that we have an issue compared with many of our European Cousins. I'm prepared to go with those figures rather than perceived happiness based on GDP etc. I have seen nations with widespread poverty whose lives revolve around having enough food to enjoy a good meal with their family and close friends most days. These people, with little concern for the past or the future, are generally happier than those educated to have very different priorities. Sadly it appears almost impossible to unlearn ones way of life, with increasing certainty as we grow older.

There is certainly a very sizeable gap between most of our EU neighbours and the UK. Remember this is purely about depression.
 
I agree about the impossiblity (difficulty) to unlearn, and also the less you know bit, but antidepressant drugs are dished out as a easier/cheaper alternative to talking therapies.
Typical UK mentality, stiff upper lip and take a pill rather than discuss.

If we need to increase productivity, better results from giving them amphetamines :)

Bloss
 
Would you agree that accessibility to medication is basically the same from Italy to the USA? If not, how much ,might I ask, have you travelled?

Social norms dictate happiness. Depression is directly linked to happiness. We are debating whether people like the French are simply more productive because they are happier.

IMHO, there are SO many aspects of life that the UK in particular (in Western Europe) gets wrong which makes it an inefficient and unproductive nation. That is just a personal opinion based on observing some other cultures around the world over a twenty year period - I don't claim any clinical qualification for that. I just see many aspects of foreign cultures that I wish still existed in the UK.
 
Roger Adams said:
Would you agree that accessibility to medication is basically the same from Italy to the USA? If not, how much ,might I ask, have you travelled?

Social norms dictate happiness. Depression is directly linked to happiness. We are debating whether people like the French are simply more productive because they are happier.
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Show me some analytical data rather than conjecture on your part and just bald figures.

Certainly the medical profession and environment is all but unique in the US - ask any honest, logical, educated American.

How about adding some demographic data too? Yet another factor. Income, GDP per capita figures?

Take a look at antibiotic use and give us your explanation of that.
 
Roger Adams said:
I have seen nations with widespread poverty whose lives revolve around having enough food to enjoy a good meal with their family and close friends most days. These people, with little concern for the past or the future, are generally happier than those educated to have very different priorities. Sadly it appears almost impossible to unlearn ones way of life, with increasing certainty as we grow older.
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There’s a great deal of truth in this. In wartime, suicide rates decrease in populations.
 
Roger Adams said:
These people, with little concern for the past or the future, are generally happier than those educated to have very different priorities.
Click to expand...

Living in the present (trendily known as mindfulness) is strongly correlated with happiness, as opposed to dwelling on the past or planning for the future. I'm not sure to what extent mindfulness is genetic vs cultural.

The USA is an "interesting" place. Workers are very productive, in no small part because being unemployed in the US is utterly dismal, and a fast track to bankruptcy. However Americans are also generally more upbeat and optimistic than Britons, even though, at least until recently, living in the UK is less stressful than the US.
 
France has higher productivity partly because local employment law tends to favour employees, so employers think twice (or three times) before adding employees to the payroll. Automation and other productivity measures often look like a good alternative, so employers invest more in these areas, while UK employers tend to be more focused on return on assets and other financial metrics. This also explains France’s consistently higher unemployment rate.
 
China has now passed the UK in number of robots per worker in manufacturing, which shows the scale of the problem the UK faces in going it alone.

"The UK now ranks 22nd in the global league of industrial robot users, with 85 robots per 10,000 workers in its manufacturing sector – putting it on the same level as the global average. China overtook the UK in 2017 and is currently ranked 21st with 97 robots per 10,000 workers."

https://drivesncontrols.com/news/fu...5_in_2018__96_while_the_EU_grew_by_12_25.html


Interestingly on the today programme a few weeks ago IDS of all people says he recognises the problem, although better late than never its a bit of a shame its taken him so long.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000d84y 2:21:00 in for those interested.

Another problem the UK has is that management seem to want to make work a most unpleasant experience, a few people in Sweden have mentioned how poor working environments in the UK are and wonder how people cope working there and I have had no one say they enjoy going to work there and all criticise the way things are run, most of the UK contractors who I work with will go "ABB", Anywhere But Britain, because its one of the worst places in Europe to work. Its almost as though management took the apocryphal Time advert for Shackletons expedition and used it as a template for a working environment.

"Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success"
 
I used to work for an international quant research agency. We had issues with asking people this kind of question in different countries:

On a scale of 1-5 how satisfied were you with the service you received today?

1. Very unsatisfied
2. Fairly unsatisfied
3. Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied
4. Fairly satisfied
5. Very satisfied

Of course the Brits would answer with a 4 and the Americans would answer with a 5. And we would conclude that the satisfaction levels were about the same.

So how anyone can do any happy index with any metric whatsoever is probably impossible.
 
russel said:
Another problem the UK has is that management seem to want to make work a most unpleasant experience, a few people in Sweden have mentioned how poor working environments in the UK are and wonder how people cope working there and I have had no one say they enjoy going to work there and all criticise the way things are run, most of the UK contractors who I work with will go "ABB", Anywhere But Britain, because its one of the worst places in Europe to work. Its almost as though management took the apocryphal Time advert for Shackletons expedition and used it as a template for a working environment.

"Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success"
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A rather brilliant analysis of the state we are in.
 
russel said:
China has now passed the UK in number of robots per worker in manufacturing, which shows the scale of the problem the UK faces in going it alone.

"The UK now ranks 22nd in the global league of industrial robot users, with 85 robots per 10,000 workers in its manufacturing sector – putting it on the same level as the global average. China overtook the UK in 2017 and is currently ranked 21st with 97 robots per 10,000 workers."

https://drivesncontrols.com/news/fu...5_in_2018__96_while_the_EU_grew_by_12_25.html


Interestingly on the today programme a few weeks ago IDS of all people says he recognises the problem, although better late than never its a bit of a shame its taken him so long.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000d84y 2:21:00 in for those interested.

Another problem the UK has is that management seem to want to make work a most unpleasant experience, a few people in Sweden have mentioned how poor working environments in the UK are and wonder how people cope working there and I have had no one say they enjoy going to work there and all criticise the way things are run, most of the UK contractors who I work with will go "ABB", Anywhere But Britain, because its one of the worst places in Europe to work. Its almost as though management took the apocryphal Time advert for Shackletons expedition and used it as a template for a working environment.

"Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success"
Click to expand...
Is it still like this?
 
Vinny said:
Show me some analytical data rather than conjecture on your part and just bald figures.

Certainly the medical profession and environment is all but unique in the US - ask any honest, logical, educated American.

How about adding some demographic data too? Yet another factor. Income, GDP per capita figures?

Take a look at antibiotic use and give us your explanation of that.
Click to expand...

I'm not including the US for obvious reasons - although usage does not correlate to cost. Consumerism is an interesting metric however. As explained, income and GDP have little or no impact IME - other than potentially impacting an individual's chances of indulging in the former. They may when some try to put figures together. They don't when talking to poor families eating a fish that their uncle caught that morning. The only demographic data that appears to be of concern is social groupings - primarily family units.

Now I appreciate that many of these factors are metrics that have become irrelevant in many Western economies. That is the point. That correlates with the level of depression diagnosed to a very high degree. Anyway, just my personal opinion based on extensive travel. The measure of depression depends on the metrics that the investigative body considers to be of import.
 
russel said:
China has now passed the UK in number of robots per worker in manufacturing, which shows the scale of the problem the UK faces in going it alone.

"The UK now ranks 22nd in the global league of industrial robot users, with 85 robots per 10,000 workers in its manufacturing sector – putting it on the same level as the global average. China overtook the UK in 2017 and is currently ranked 21st with 97 robots per 10,000 workers."
Click to expand...

richgilb said:
.....So how anyone can do any happy index with any metric whatsoever is probably impossible.
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Apply the latter to the former.

What is the insane obsession with robots? Define a robot.

RR aero engines - one of only 3 significant manufacturers in the world, and no.1 in some types. How many robots used in building an engine? None. Unless you count cnc machine tools there will be precious few in component manufacture as well.

Just as one for instance.
 
Roger Adams said:
I'm not including the US for obvious reasons - although usage does not correlate to cost. Consumerism is an interesting metric however. As explained, income and GDP have little or no impact IME - other than potentially impacting an individual's chances of indulging in the former. They may when some try to put figures together. They don't when talking to poor families eating a fish that their uncle caught that morning. The only demographic data that appears to be of concern is social groupings - primarily family units.

Now I appreciate that many of these factors are metrics that have become irrelevant in many Western economies. That is the point. That correlates with the level of depression diagnosed to a very high degree. Anyway, just my personal opinion based on extensive travel. The measure of depression depends on the metrics that the investigative body considers to be of import.
Click to expand...

That graph has 24 countries , where are the others? Where is Greece? Poland?

Scandinavian people tend to wax lyrical about quality of life, but where are they in that table?
 
Good to see Richgilb you are checking out your surroundings :) A friend lives in Annecy and he has told me this many times. He thinks it is very funny that the world thinks the French are inefficient. Maybe if you look at the French youth unemployment rate it might demonstrate how efficiently they operate.
Thinking cynically I have a sneaking suspicion that this generation of young French people are living off the success of their parents (pensions. Job security. Good pay and long employment). There is a generation coming up in Ireland that are similar but I think in our case we are not as wealthy and the young folk still realise or enough of them do that you need to work hard in this life to get ahead or stay afloat.
 
Productivity is a measure of investment nothing else, if productivity is falling investment hasn't been in the required areas or is lacking
 
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