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Can we hear anything, allowed to hear anything, or are you deaf/stupid?

Cereal Killer said:
Question: can anyone tell me what its going to sound like from the above link?
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In a blind test operated away from clipping and into a load it can handle it will sound like every other audibly neutral amplifier operated under similar conditions. In a sighted test with all cues turned on it may or may not sound different depending on what one has learnt to respond to. This training isn't necessarily conscious and it can under some circumstances extend to hearing differences under blind conditions even though, obviously, it cannot enable identification. That is, if one has adjusted to hearing a difference between amplifier A and amplifier B under sighted conditions (perfectly normal and reasonable) and know that either A or B is in use in a blind test then you may hear amplifier A or B or you may be confused and hear no difference. What you won't be able to do if you do hear A or B with audibly neutral amplifiers is identify correctly which amplifier is in use.
 
there has been a lot of discussion on forums about the humble Audio Technica 3600L/AT91/Rega Carbon et al pickup cartridge, and how good it sounds compared to much more expensive carts. But point out that it generates 8% distortion (in the vertical plane, presumably 2nd harmonic distortion) and people won't believe it!
 
h.g. said:
In a blind test operated away from clipping and into a load it can handle it will sound like every other audibly neutral amplifier operated under similar conditions. In a sighted test with all cues turned on it may or may not sound different depending on what one has learnt to respond to. This training isn't necessarily conscious and it can under some circumstances extend to hearing differences under blind conditions even though, obviously, it cannot enable identification. That is, if one has adjusted to hearing a difference between amplifier A and amplifier B under sighted conditions (perfectly normal and reasonable) and know that either A or B is in use in a blind test then you may hear amplifier A or B or you may be confused and hear no difference. What you won't be able to do if you do hear A or B with audibly neutral amplifiers is identify correctly which amplifier is in use.
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So can you explain why it sounds so vastly different to the Devialet D220 & D250 pro which preceded it?
Test results here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/devialet-d-premier-da-integrated-amplifier-measurements
 
Cereal Killer said:
So can you explain why it sounds so vastly different to the Devialet D220 & D250 pro which preceded it?
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Under blind conditions or sighted conditions? Is this vast difference heard by everyone in the same way or does it vary? Is the amplifier being pushed into being nonlinear?
 
Sorry but the "sighted/un-sighted" mantra is just an objectivits BS standardisum which is bordering on insulting a persons intelligence.

The are both being used in the same room, source, cables, speakers, and same music. Both used well within their clipping range; neither being pushed hard or out of the optimal performance zones.
 
Cereal Killer said:
So can you explain why it sounds so vastly different to the Devialet D220 & D250 pro which preceded it?
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Pick the answer that aligns with your belief system:

1. The manufacturers have voiced them differently.
2. In fact they don't sound different, you just think they do as a result of cognitive bias.
 
Cereal Killer said:
OK to both.

Answer 1: isn't reflected in the independent measured test results. They both indicate the amps should sound the same.
Answer 2: not possible. The differences are beyond minor, they are hugely different sounding.

https://www.i-fidelity.net/en/test-...et-dna/labreport-audionet-dna-page-eight.html
https://www.stereophile.com/content/devialet-d-premier-da-integrated-amplifier-measurements
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My reply was intended to be tongue in cheek. It seems I missed the mark. Sorry.
 
Cereal Killer said:
Sorry but the "sighted/un-sighted" mantra is just an objectivits BS standardisum which is bordering on insulting a persons intelligence.
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This made me chortle. Does this contempt for scientific knowledge extend outside home audio? Can you explain why people possessing high levels of scientific knowledge seem to need to be intelligent? Whereas those that don't might be intelligent but they also might be as thick as two short planks?

Amir by the way also has a low regard for scientific knowledge so one needs to be careful to distinguish "audiophile objectivist" and engineer/scientist. The latter will possesses scientific knowledge if they are to be competent at their job whereas the former are often converted "audiophile subjectivists" with little to no relevant scientific knowledge.
 
I don't know why, but every pfm subjectivist–objectivist thread reminds me of Rush's Hemispheres.

If you have trouble seeing this, try reading a post in Geddy's screechy singing style as this plays —


Joe
 
h.g. said:
The latter will possesses scientific knowledge if they are to be competent at their job whereas the former are often converted "audiophile subjectivists" with little to no relevant scientific knowledge.
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according to who?, you state this is absolute, absolute to what?
 
I really struggle with this debate. I value almost all contributions and wouldn't want to see one side or the other excluded. There is no implication that people who hear differences in sighted tests are stupid at all. It is just that they are normal people with normal unreliable brains just like mine.
When I first came here from the original Naim forum it was refreshing to have some of the 'subjective' stuff challenged. It helped me. I posted here some years ago that I was planning to bi-amp and Serge pointed out that the science said this was not a good idea. Did a bit of reading and saved myself a few bob. Happened several times since. All good as far as I'm concerned. I like to think I'm bright enough to work out for myself who to listen to. I don't need Tony to play daddy; it's not as if people are coming into my house shouting the odds. They just may type a paragraph or two which is fine by me. Crack on, type away.
 
sq225917 said:
Yes, but it doesnt include acceptance of unicorns. I like a warm sound I like bass slam, I like the way it highlights the mute used on that trumpet, not I like it because i think a piece of impossible equipment has an impossible effect.
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But subjectivist don’t like something because of the unicorns, this is a straw man. They like it because they like how it sounds, or how it makes their system sound, to them. If the explanation as to how it works stretches credibility, that’s irrelevant, as it wasn’t the explanation that led to the like.
 
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