Naim Stageline

[toecutter]

According to manual it will take approx 5 days of vinyl playback for Stageline to perform anything better from dead cold.

A few months ago I had the factory MM cartridge replaced on my vinyl record player which is an old Pro-ject 1.2.
I replaced the factory Pro-ject cartridge for a better one from Sumiko which is model Olympia.
I also had my player lubed and adjusted.

Now when I play vinyls, there seem to be lots of dynamics missing on audio playback!!
Sound quality on certain vinyls is best described as canned on bass and there's no natural treble?
Certain vinyls are not very enjoyable to listen to!
It feels like my ears are clogged with shite and I have to stick my fingers into my ears and rub them hard to decompress air locks.

I asked my local hifi-guy who replaced the old MM cartridge for the new Sumiko why there is no dynamics and natural treble on playback.
I wasn't very happy with this as the sound quality was much better with the original factory supplied MM cartridge.

My hifi-guy told me to adjust the tone arm rear wheel for more needle pressure.
Adjustment is from 1,8 to 2,2
I put it on approx 2,1 which is nearly to the max.
Audio quality improved a bit but not perfect as it was before with the old factory MM cartridge.

How long does it take for Naim Stageline to heat up to work temperatures when it begins to sound better and more fully dynamic?
I used to play 2 to 3 vinyls a day, one vinyl after another but I don't get enjoyable sound as it used to sound before buying a new MM cartridge.

My other Naim kit begins to sound decent after 3 months of daily use, I can't play constant vinyl records for Stageline to heat up and sound better.
My stereo is switched ON 24/7 all year around except when thunder strikes then I turn it OFF.

What to do?

 

[positive_energy]

My Stageline is on 24/7 and does not need to warm up. Perhaps your cartridge is not good.

 

[toecutter]

My Stageline is on 24/7 and does not need to warm up. Perhaps your cartridge is not good.

My stageline also ON 24/7.

Do you mean the new Sumiko Olympia doesn't fit my old player as no synergetic between components?

 

[Ponty]

I used to have a Stageline N, powered by a 252 / Supercap. I thought it sounded pretty good for a relatively cheap stage. However, I’m currently using an NVA Phono 1 with much lower level Naim amps (112X/150X/Flatcap2) and do you know what, the vinyl sounds better. In retrospect, the Stageline was muddy and slow by comparison. Maybe you just don’t like what the Stageline does? Might be worth borrowing another stage to get to the bottom of what’s happening.

 

[Woodface]

The problem is unlikely the phono stage, more likely a mismatch with the TT/Arm.

 

[toecutter]

I used to have a Stageline N, powered by a 252 / Supercap. I thought it sounded pretty good for a relatively cheap stage. However, I’m currently using an NVA Phono 1 with much lower level Naim amps (112X/150X/Flatcap2) and do you know what, the vinyl sounds better. In retrospect, the Stageline was muddy and slow by comparison. Maybe you just don’t like what the Stageline does? Might be worth borrowing another stage to get to the bottom of what’s happening.

Yes, muddy is a much better explanation!
Thank you.

Do you think if oxidation could cause muddiness in audio playback?
It's been a long time since I removed and inserted my DIN connectors to scrape them clean.
Maybe they got oxideted?

 

[toecutter]

The problem is unlikely the phono stage, more likely a mismatch with the TT/Arm.

What's a TT/Arm?
Do you mean seller sold me a new MM Sumiko cartridge which doesn't fit my vinyl player?

 

[Ponty]

Yes, muddy is a much better explanation!
Thank you.

Do you think if oxidation could cause muddiness in audio playback?
It's been a long time since I removed and inserted my DIN connectors.
Maybe they got oxideted?

Definitely disconnect and reconnect all connections several times to clean the contacts (with the power off!). You never know.

 

[toecutter]

Definitely disconnect and reconnect all connections several times to clean the contacts (with the power off!). You never know.

I have done this several times before many years ago scraping the plugs but not recently.

I have my Stageline put on top of the Flatcap XS, when I moved the SL away from the part where the toridal core is placed inside the FC-XS I heard like a static noise from the Stageline while I moved it around for a better place.
Maybe it was the power cord from my Stageline touching the power cord from my NAP150 which gave static noise?
I don't if when both cables touched each other my Stageline began sounding weird with lack of dynamics?
I had to move both power cords away from each other

 

[suzywong]

Curious this, I’ve just acquired a Stageline S (accepting that mine is an MC version, rather than the OP’s MM stage), which I use (with an olive HiCap) in place of the 523S cards in my NAC82-Supercap. I also removed the cards from the 82.

I thought it was a small, but nice improvement over the 523s. Certainly not “muddy”.
And I do not leave it on 24/7.

 

[Vince]

Low output voltage of the pick up?

 

[Eyebroughty]

If your stageline was fine before there is nothing wrong with it.

Sounds more like an issue with the cartridge or the cartridge / stageline loading.

Best plan is get the new cartridge checked by your dealer if ok then a miss match between the cartridge and stageline.

Then to find out which cartridges are a good match for the stageline, if it was working before it is unlikely is has gone wrong.

The main issue with fault finding is that you have to do it small steps at a time, testing each part to see if it is the issue.

When choosing a new cartridge you have to make sure it works with the system you have, did your dealer demo your cartridge when fitted and what did he use?

Is your stageline new, if not this 5 days run in is not an issue, and there is not much inside the stageline to run in anyway.

There are many things that could be causing the issue you are experiencing, you just have to work on them one by one. First off get the cartridge checked.

 

[wd40addict]

Stageline MM has 470pf input capacitance, it could be that the new cartridge is not happy with this loading (which is very high by modern standards, especially once arm capacitance is added in).

Maybe try the deck at your dealer with a different phono stage that has adjustable loading to see if this is the issue?

Edit: the Olympia seems to specify 100-200pf loading.

 

[2ManyBoxes]

You have a chain of components that finally produce the sound that you hear i.e.

Turntable -> phono pre-amp -> amp -> speakers

You need to narrow it down further and further until you find out what is causing the problem.

First are other sources that you haven't changed affected by the problem? If they are OK then that eliminates the amp and speakers. Unlikely I know but it's horribly easy to damage tweeters if you don't switch everything off before you unplug things.

If the amp and speakers are OK then it's got to be either the turntable / arm / cartridge or the phono stage. See if your dealer can lend you another phono stage, hopefully one that your dealer has set up for the cartridge. If that solves the problem then it's the phono stage, if not then it's the turntable.

You need to have a methodical logical approach to finding where the problem is otherwise you'll just spend ages trying many different things before you solve the problem by chance.

 

[uncl_nigel]

I used to have a Stageline N (...) In retrospect, the Stageline was muddy and slow by comparison. (...)

Curious this, I’ve just acquired a Stageline S (accepting that mine is an MC version, rather than the OP’s MM stage), which I use (with an olive HiCap) in place of the 523S cards in my NAC82-Supercap. I also removed the cards from the 82.

I thought it was a small, but nice improvement over the 523s. Certainly not “muddy”.
And I do not leave it on 24/7.

Both the above correspond to my memories of Stagelines N and S both with a dedicated Hicap (also tried with Teddycap mk2 or mk3).
I did not get on with the N and found the S to be better. Neither stayed that long in my hi-fi despite me being seriously into the Naim olive sound at the time.

As others have already suggested:
- get the cartridge checked (difficult if you penny-pinched online)
- see if you can borrow a different phono stage (preferably with adjustable loading).

 

[toecutter]

If your stageline was fine before there is nothing wrong with it.

Sounds more like an issue with the cartridge or the cartridge / stageline loading.

Best plan is get the new cartridge checked by your dealer if ok then a miss match between the cartridge and stageline.

Then to find out which cartridges are a good match for the stageline, if it was working before it is unlikely is has gone wrong.

The main issue with fault finding is that you have to do it small steps at a time, testing each part to see if it is the issue.

When choosing a new cartridge you have to make sure it works with the system you have, did your dealer demo your cartridge when fitted and what did he use?

Is your stageline new, if not this 5 days run in is not an issue, and there is not much inside the stageline to run in anyway.

There are many things that could be causing the issue you are experiencing, you just have to work on them one by one. First off get the cartridge checked.

My local hifi dealer recommended the Sumiko Olympia, he said it plays and sounds lovely.
Unfortunately there's no Naim dealer in my city, nearest is like 50 km's away.

My Stageline is very old from 2000 and has S/N16xxxx, never re-capped.
Today I played 3 vinyls one after another in a row, some vinyls sound better than others.

Today I was repositioning my speakers a bit more accurate and sound improved a bit.
I also tweaked the knob on my tone arm for needle pressure going from 2,1 down to 2,0.

Easiest and cheapest thing to do first is to turn off the stereo and pull out all connectors in and out a few times to remove possible oxide then re-start it and play.

I have come to a conclusion that some vinyls have a better recording masters than other vinyls and therefore my Naim plays the way the vinyl was pressed.
There are no tone controls on Naim, it doesn't fake the audio to make it sound better, stereo plays the way the master disc was recorded by the studio either it was good or studio made a bad master?

 

[matt j]

Could just be that you prefer the sound with your previous cartridge. The Sumiko looks like a fairly low spec item to be honest, I wouldn't expect much from it.

 

[toecutter]

Could just be that you prefer the sound with your previous cartridge. The Sumiko looks like a fairly low spec item to be honest, I wouldn't expect much from it.

The new Sumiko was kinda steep compared to my factory supplied Pro-Ject MM cartridge.
Maybe I got used to it's sound quality?

This is the Sumiko model line up from cheapest to my Olympia which can't be an all bad cartridge?
Oyster --> Black Pearl --> Pearl --> Rainer --> Olympia -----> More expensive versions
It cost me approx 180 pounds byuing the new Olympia and getting it installed and adjusted.

 

[Boris the madcap]

Curious this, I’ve just acquired a Stageline S (accepting that mine is an MC version, rather than the OP’s MM stage), which I use (with an olive HiCap) in place of the 523S cards in my NAC82-Supercap. I also removed the cards from the 82.

I thought it was a small, but nice improvement over the 523s. Certainly not “muddy”.
And I do not leave it on 24/7.

Hello, what cartridge do you use with
the stageline s

 

[matt j]

The new Sumiko was kinda steep compared to my factory supplied Pro-Ject MM cartridge.
Maybe I got used to it's sound quality?

This is the Sumiko model line up from cheapest to my Olympia which can't be an all bad cartridge?
Oyster --> Black Pearl --> Pearl --> Rainer --> Olympia -----> More expensive versions
It cost me approx 180 pounds byuing the new Olympia and getting it installed and adjusted.

I'm presuming the Pro-Ject shipped with an Ortofon? I think the better option would have been a stylus upgrade for that cart, the Olympia spec doesn't read like a £180 cartridge.