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Election night 2019 / aftermath II

misterdog said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/mum-boy-ae-floor-whose-21071305

Indeed, the boy had flu and tonsillitis, though Jeremy stated that he 'had' pneumonia not suspected pneumonia.

Shameful by the Labour party to use the NHS as a political football in my opinion, trying to gather votes through fear.

We have one of the best health care systems in the top 20 of the world.

Politicians and the media constantly telling us/them that the NHS is failing and people are dying is
bullshit and hardly likely to bolster self esteem of those who work there.

Shameful and disgraceful.
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You should ask some NHS staff whether or not the nasty man damaging their self esteem is what’s keeping them up at night.
 
matt j said:
Ironically, Jack, I think it was Corbyn's lack of full on Brexit support that did for him in all the safe Labour seats that have gone. You criticise him for it but obviously if he'd backed remain wholeheartedly then the defeat might well have been even bigger.

As much as Brexit is a bad idea it seems we're going to get it one way or another, better to accept it and make a plan to get through it rather than stick to your guns and rule yourself out of government for a generation.

I know Brexit gets a hard time on here (and rightly so, I would have voted remain in the referendum given chance) but he had to acknowledge where the momentum was and play to it, and it wasn't with remain.
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I half-agree with you Matt. The irony is Corbyn might have ruled Labour out of government for a generation anyway. The momentum was never with the Leavers for me, it was with Remain. A lot of the Labour Leavers up north were old, working-class, reactionaries.

Either way, Labour has to change if it wants to win an election. It will be interesting to see what happens. People like Milne should be shown the door asap.

A lot of Labour's policy ideas were really good. There were unfortunately far too many of them being stuffed down the public's throat at once. Free broadband is a killer of an idea though.

Jack
 
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droodzilla said:
Thanks, but I'm just passing through - intrigued by Sean's comment about Rayner.

I don't care what Tories want. We either increase investment in public services, underpinned by a green industrial revolution, or - sooner or later - we'll see what 21st century English fascism looks like.

Fix our hearts or die.
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The Tories want Labour to believe that it doesn't matter who leads the party as long as a left-wing agenda is in place. Look at what happened in the GE. Labour got well and truly thumped because voters didn't like and/or didn't trust Corbyn and unless they find a new leader who can get through to Tory voters (esp the new recruits) then Labour will be in opposition for an awful long time no matter how wonderful the manifesto is. BJ is not slow to realise which side his bread is buttered on and is planning to spend £86 on road and rail upgrades in the North of England. It is not going to be easy for Labour to come back, making the choice of leader absolutely critical.

You have dismissed Jesse Phillips, but she appears to be exactly the kind of person who could take on BJ and get the Labour message back on track.
 
jackbarron said:
I half-agree with you Matt. The irony is Corbyn might have ruled Labour out of government for a generation anyway. The momentum was never with the Leavers for me, it was with Remain. A lot of the Labour Leavers up north were old, working-class, reactionaries.

Either way, Labour has to change if it wants to win an election. It will be interesting to see what happens. People like Milne should be shown the door asap.

A lot of Labour's policy ideas were really good. There were unfortunately far too many of them being stuffed down the public's throat at once.

Jack
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It's people like Milne, K Murphy and McCluskey who now run the party, so who's to show them the door?
 
droodzilla said:
OK, thanks. I see most of what you're referring to but can't find anything about support for the arms industry so please share a link if you have one.

I get that Jess Phillips could tear into Johnson nicely at PMQs etc, but I've never seen her show the slightest enthusiasm for the current policy direction, so I just don't trust her, I'm afraid.

I am in a "period of reflection", as they say.
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Here she is on a jolly:

https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1180197163265134592?s=20

It's classic old Labour: jobs over solidarity (very few actual jobs in weapons). If she can brush off Yemen like this the chances of her embracing a Green New Deal also seem pretty low.

Not saying Philips is the one to go for, BTW, but I'd rule Rayner out before her.
 
gassor said:
The Tories want Labour to believe that it doesn't matter who leads the party as long as a left-wing agenda is in place. Look at what happened in the GE. Labour got well and truly thumped because voters didn't like and/or didn't trust Corbyn and unless they find a new leader who can get through to Tory voters (esp the new recruits) then Labour will be in opposition for an awful long time no matter how wonderful the manifesto is. BJ is not slow to realise which side his bread is buttered on and is planning to spend £86 on road and rail upgrades in the North of England. It is not going to be easy for Labour to come back, making the choice of leader absolutely critical.

You have dismissed Jesse Phillips, but she appears to be exactly the kind of person who could take on BJ and get the Labour message back on track.
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Well, they’ve made road and rail so bad £86 will make quite an improvement. Trouble is it’s another lie, they won’t spend that much.
 
jackbarron said:
I

. Free broadband is a killer of an idea though.
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I can afford to pay for my own broadband and so, I imagine , can you Jack.

I would rather the money was more targeted and the money then saved spent on other priorities ( hospitals ? )
 
Certain elements within Labour seem to want a female Leader - this is dangerous rubbish, as what they should want is the best person for the job, regardless of gender.
 
misterdog said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/mum-boy-ae-floor-whose-21071305

Indeed, the boy had flu and tonsillitis, though Jeremy stated that he 'had' pneumonia not suspected pneumonia.

Shameful by the Labour party to use the NHS as a political football in my opinion, trying to gather votes through fear.

We have one of the best health care systems in the top 20 of the world.

Politicians and the media constantly telling us/them that the NHS is failing and people are dying is
bullshit and hardly likely to bolster self esteem of those who work there.

Shameful and disgraceful.
Click to expand...
The NHS has been instrumentalized by politicians as long as it has existed. We’ve had more pictures of BoJo in a white coat with tie tucked in the shirt, mouthing platitudes, than we’ve ever had of Corbyn.

Britain does indeed have a good health care system, as befits one of the richest countries in the world. It stands out in W. Europe on the basis of its high cost efficiency: decent outcomes for a lower % of GDP than most affluent European countries. But it is being relentlessly squeezed by funding constraints, and many top Conservatives (ministers etc.) are on record advocating its progressive and selective privatization. Coincidentally (?), the USA has made it crystal clear that access to the NHS (for US companies, naturally) wiIl have to be on the agenda whenever HMG will want to talk about that trade deal. It seems to me an entirely valid issue for Labour to bring up at election time, and BoJo refusing to look at the picture of a sick kid sleeping on the floor is as good as any way to bring people’s attention to the subject.
 
Brian said:
Well, they’ve made road and rail so bad £86 will make quite an improvement. Trouble is it’s another lie, they won’t spend that much.
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Think about it, why wouldn't they spend £86b to stay in power till "a' the seas gang dry"?
 
Brian said:
I have no idea what you are on about.
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Darmok said:
Precisely!

Did you not take notice of the number printed on the reverse side of your so called secret ballot paper?
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I will take your no reply answer as a NO then.

The printed number on the backside of a ballot paper refers the voters ballot paper back to the electoral registries ledger broadsheet pages.

Many many people are oblivious to this fact, many many people are aware of this fact and do not register to vote.

Sham democracy imv.

If it really mattered, voting would be compulsory.
 
I guess it’s some sort of silver lining if they spend money where it’s needed but if they do, and it shows, Labour are basically dead.
 
JackB posted:

jackbarron said:
"Labour have long resisted the introduction of proportional representation for Westminster,
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Yes it wasn't exactly at the top of their agenda between 97 and 2010 when they were the beneficiaries of FPTP.

Blair did allow Paddy Pantsdown a peak into the Cabinet Room once but that was about it.

A missed opportunity which could have meant a centre left government forever(ish).

Ray
 
PsB said:
The NHS has been instrumentalized by politicians as long as it has existed. We’ve had more pictures of BoJo in a white coat with tie tucked in the shirt, mouthing platitudes, than we’ve ever had of Corbyn.

Britain does indeed have a good health care system, as befits one of the richest countries in the world. It stands out in W. Europe on the basis of its high cost efficiency: decent outcomes for a lower % of GDP than most affluent European countries. But it is being relentlessly squeezed by funding constraints, and many top Conservatives (ministers etc.) are on record advocating its progressive and selective privatization. Coincidentally (?), the USA has made it crystal clear that access to the NHS (for US companies, naturally) wiIl have to be on the agenda whenever HMG will want to talk about that trade deal. It seems to me an entirely valid issue for Labour to bring up at election time, and BoJo refusing to look at the picture of a sick kid sleeping on the floor is as good as any way to bring people’s attention to the subject.
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These numbers are informative, even though they presumably relate to the previous HoC.

76 MPs with interests in private healthcare companies, of which 81% are Conservative.

145 peers have recent or current interests in healthcare companies, of which the totals are 1 in every 6 Labour Lords, and 1 in every 4 Conservatives.

http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/p/key-facts-of-lords-and-mps-connections.html?m=1
 
Darmok said:
I will take your no reply answer as a NO then.

The printed number on the backside of a ballot paper refers the voters ballot paper back to the electoral registries ledger broadsheet pages.

Many many people are oblivious to this fact, many many people are aware of this fact and do not register to vote.

Sham democracy imv.

If it really mattered, voting would be compulsory.
Click to expand...
Still no idea what you’re getting at. I don’t know why you’re asking me about compulsory voting, I’ve never mentioned it.
 
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