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Election night 2019 / aftermath

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That's the way to do it -spoilt ballot (none of the above or whatever).

But a transferrable vote PR/compulsory system would be truly representative - even if it has downsides.
FPTP - Brexit 2% vote = 0 seats with PR maybe 13 seats v SNP 3.9% = 48 seats - etc.

Dave.
 
misterdog said:
Though if Jeremy Corbyn had won, future generations would believe that everything in life was free.

And that all money came, from a magic money tree.

Maybe Hans Christian Anderson could be the new leader.

I see that once again the losing side is resorting to calling 'anyone else' liars, cheats and racists.
How very civilised - not.
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Perhaps it’s the winners spouting bollocks that’s the problem.
 
Alex S said:
Perhaps it’s the winners spouting bollocks that’s the problem.
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Firstly I did not win, secondly the winners have not called you a fool or an idiot for believing the guff presented as plausible fact presented by the Labour party.

Speaking of racism, how exactly would you describe the Labour party treatment of the Jewish community ?

Honourable ? if not then you are guilty of hypocrisy in calling others racist.
 
The only changes the Tories will make to Elections will be in their favour. They have to repeal the FTPA so that they don't have another December Election. Don't be surprised to see VoterId introduced with only Driver's Licence or Passport accepted. I can see a lot of changes being made by Statutory Instrument so that contenious things will just become Law rather than being debated in the HoC. I think that the report into Russian Interference in the 2016 Referendum will be destroyed.
 
Tony L said:
Yes. Other than some tactical voting here and there I have voted Lib Dem all my life as I have always grasped the electoral system simply doesn’t work, and therefore the first priority is to change it for one that does. I voted for Blair in ‘97 as it was necessary to get the Tories out, but went back to the LDs immediately after that (Iraq was a factor too).

PS I voted Green this time as I didn’t rate Swinson much and my area is a Labour basket case anyway, so really you are only voting to save someone’s deposit, not for political representation. It is basically a waste of my time turning out.
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Even her own town rejected her. I'm not Lib Dem but I liked the youngish leader from up north Preston was it. He spoke common sense.
 
Marchbanks said:
Numerically maybe, but in essence no difference. Once the majority is sufficient, it doesn’t matter exactly how big it is. And there would have been a chance of getting some vital compromises on Brexit - maybe even a second referendum - which was thrown away. Would the support for Johnson have been so great then? All conjecture of course, it’s just what I would like to have seen.
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The old parliament already rejected a second referendum, no-deal, revocation, and May's deal.

It was either going to approve:

1. Further delays, and/or
2. Johnson's deal.

(1) just makes everyone but the Tories look like an indecisive ditherers (just as Johnson repeatedly said), especially if they won't grant an election to sort it out. (2) gives Johnson a big success and, as he couldn't have done it without non-Tory votes, makes other MPs, mainly parts of the Labour Party, complicit.

I just think on balance that these would have further harmed the opposition vote, but, as you say, we will never really know.

Kind regards

- Garry
 
thebigfredc said:
Dave,

I have some sympathy with people who are, for example, ardent Labour supporters but happen to live in an area which always elects a Tory MP. I have been in this situation before and it is demoralising but to not turn up to the polling station is an insult to all those who have campaigned and fought over centuries for the franchise. Spoil the ballot paper if necessary.

Ray
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I can't agree....if everyone turns up, then the establishment can conclude that the voting system works. It doesn't work and it doesn't work because of the reason that you mention above. The ones doing the insulting are the ones that have failed to make the voting system relevant to all. It's not like they haven't had all my life and longer to sort it out. I've been a Lib Dem voter in North Hull for a few elections. I have turned up and voted, but for what? **** all, that's what for.
 
richgilb said:
...if everyone turns up, then the establishment can conclude that the voting system works.
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I was daydreaming about this today. I thought the only way to make the point would be to spoil the ballot paper, preferably with ‘PR now!’ or somesuch. At least the numbers are recorded then. Obviously this would need coordinated action - a few individuals here and there wouldn’t achieve anything.
 
Marchbanks said:
I was daydreaming about this today. I thought the only way to make the point would be to spoil the ballot paper, preferably with ‘PR now!’ or somesuch. At least the numbers are recorded then.
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Certainly agree if a recognised tactic was in place.
 
I.D.C. said:
I'm not Lib Dem but I liked the youngish leader from up north Preston was it. He spoke common sense.
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Tim ‘smell my spaniel’ Farron. I liked him too, but his downfall was he suffered from religion and the homophobia that so often accompanies it. Clearly incompatible with the open and tolerant ethos of the LDs, but a shame as he was otherwise a very likeable and articulate bloke.
 
misterdog said:
Firstly I did not win, secondly the winners have not called you a fool or an idiot for believing the guff presented as plausible fact presented by the Labour party.

Speaking of racism, how exactly would you describe the Labour party treatment of the Jewish community ?

Honourable ? if not then you are guilty of hypocrisy in calling others racist.
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I will reply to your edited post:

Appaling, should have been dealt with more forcefully and quicker, but I strongly believe Corbyn is less racist than Johnson. Find me some Corbyn ‘letterbox’ equivalents. Johnson has proved with many comments and writings that he is a typical white, privileged casual racist. Corbyn is not and, with reference to your second point, nor am I and neither have I called others here racist. Nonetheless, many racists exist in this country and very few of them voted with me to Remain.
 
misterdog said:
Firstly I did not win, secondly the winners have not called you a fool or an idiot for believing the guff presented as plausible fact presented by the Labour party.

Speaking of racism, how exactly would you describe the Labour party treatment of the Jewish community ?

Honourable ? if not then you are guilty of hypocrisy in calling others racist.
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Wonderful, perfect, completely devoid of antisemitism. The only antisemitism was that made up by the sort of newspapers that Tory scum read. If you are looking for actual antisemitism... plus Islamophobia and pretty much every repellent trait known to humanity then the Tories are a one-stop-shop!
 
glancaster said:
She (and Corbyn, for that matter) would eventually have had to face Johnson in an election. The longer they resisted the worse it would look.

By the way, just like in 2017, the 2019 Tory manifesto includes a pledge to remove the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. This time, they have the numbers to actually do it. The question is: what will they replace it with? Just go back to the old conventions, or have something written down, and, if so, what? Will they even stick with the maximum five year term we've had hitherto? In this, and so many other things, we don't know what Johnson will do. The British people just signed a blank cheque.

One problem with voting for the worst kind of people, whether they claim to be on the left or the right, is that you might not get a chance to ever vote them out. I still think that this is a bit of a stretch with Johnson -- that he will not go that far -- but I worry, nonetheless. (I never really thought he would try to prorogue parliament for weeks, until he did it.)

Kind regards

- Garry
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Maybe he'll replace it with "the Conservative government vote was the will of the people, so you're stuck with us indefinitely"...
 
Nick_G said:
Maybe he'll replace it with "the Conservative government vote was the will of the people, so you're stuck with us indefinitely"...
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Unless the Labour party gets its act together, and soon, then we are. That means credible policies, a credible leader, and credible responses to the questions of the day. There was none of this this time and we saw the result. If the Labour party wants to stay in the 1930s, fine. Just carry on as you are. Otherwise change. The only Labour government of the last 40 years has been Blair and Brown with their Tory -lite policies. Choose ideology or choose election. Up to you.
 
thebigfredc said:
Not at all, if you mean its weakens us from a security and militarily perspective, as BJ is committed to NATO whereas Corbyn.....
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Nah, collective strength! There is no way corbyn would have taken us out of NATO in one term.of office (he wouldn't have got more).
 
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