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Election night 2019 / aftermath

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Big Fred / Ray,

thebigfredc said:
How about this one..
blair-gaddafi.jpg
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Not good, but Blair’s unforgivable error was backing Bush in that stupid war that killed hundreds of thousands directly or indirectly.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Big Fred / Ray,



Not good, but Blair’s unforgivable error was backing Bush in that stupid war that killed hundreds of thousands directly or indirectly.

Joe
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Blair's problem was that he was too good at domestic politics. He got bored of it, and wanted to lead the world instead, and that's when he came unstuck. It must be frustrating for him to see what a hash his successors are making of the boring stuff.
 
Dave***t said:
One thing that has struck me powerfully is how clear it is that anti-Corbyn figures are trying to turn the defeat into a repudiation of the policies. Even though there is concrete evidence available (see the graph in this thread, for example) that policy was a tiny issue compared to Corbyn himself and LP policy on Brexit specifically.

The evidence I have seen basically says the policies were mostly ok in spirit, certainly not catastrophic, but were considered implausibly excessive in degree. But the movement to use the defeat to force policy core values change began immediately with Tom Watson on the C4 results programme, and continues with eg Marina Hyde retweeting Freedland’s column today.
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Indeed, I've said the same upthread.
 
I doubt .. no, I'm sure no one will read this, but here's a pebble in the ocean anyway

In the aftermath of the Conservatives’ historic majority at the 2019 general election, Rupert Read, Professor at the University of East Anglia, reflects on the implications for the struggle to respond to the climate emergency adequately, calling for the focus of the Green movement to move from climate change mitigation to adaptation to the impacts of climate decline, and to move beyond electoral politics to non-violent direct action.

https://greenworld.org.uk/article/w...Hxf4odc4GdgiKvkblyY6-6AgOhRONxKr6Is3N15qNQg9E
 
ff1d1l said:
72898a418725cd58c84814f3aaaad89bd1720339.jpeg
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I’m really disappointed with my generation here. We were decimated by Thatcher etc and really should know better. I left school straight onto the dole queue with little expectation of anything else for a long while. Had I not been interested in music and creative enough to find various small side-incomes I’d have had a truly awful time for many, many years as there really was nothing. No viable alternate. I regularly saw folk smashing up the dole office the desperation and hopelessness was so great. They actually installed plexiglass screens to protect the staff! That was Thatcherism. I was there, I saw it.

Sure, I’m comfortable now; I ended up with a good IT career, earned decent money etc. I own my own house outright, have zero debt and now make my living from hobbies and interests, but I’m not thick or psychopathic enough to forget exactly what right-wing policies are and what they always lead to. In exactly the same way I can’t grasp how the previous baby-boomer/hippy generation could lose all their ideology, compassion and intellect and morph into a bunch of miserable bigoted grasping myopic shits! How does that happen? Is it a family or religion thing? Does that really turn initially good people so bad? Is it really that miserable an existence (I’m too much an outsider for any of that)?

My mindset is really no different to when I was 18. I now have much more knowledge and experience, more confidence to stand alone and do my own thing etc, but my core morality and perspective is absolutely unchanged. I can see no possible scenario where I would ever vote Conservative. I am just not that cruel or selfish. It just wouldn’t ever happen.
 
Why is it that people vote massively Tory in rural areas? Look at that shocking blue/red map we all saw on Friday morning.
I find it hard to comprehend. Does anybody have a rational explanation?
I was talking with my left wing députée (MP) on Friday. The same happens here at every election. But nobody seems able to explain why. For instance, farmers vote conservative but they need Europe so badly!

And she told me that Brexit will purely be a disaster, that people just didn’t get what it was really all about. She’s a business councilor.

I hope you won’t regret this.
 
Dave***t said:
One thing that has struck me powerfully is how clear it is that anti-Corbyn figures are trying to turn the defeat into a repudiation of the policies.
Click to expand...

I think most of the analysis here seems to support the idea that the platform (aside from some questions over the sheer number of pledges) was probably not much of an issue. A long way behind voter reaction to Corbyn and Brexit as obstacles.
 
chartz said:
Why is it that people vote massively Tory in rural areas? Look at that shocking blue/red map we all saw on Friday morning.
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The amusing thing is a lot of that is farming land that relies hugely on EU subsidies and cheap immigrant labour. The UK landscape will look very different if a heartless free-market right really grab control...
 
.

Seanm said:
Naturally I don’t think any of those things, and of course I have to endure the crowing. But really, if you’ve got some ideas you go right ahead and share them.
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One idea that was shared quite a long time ago ( and ignored ) was..get rid of Mr Cornyn: he is unelectable.

And the reply that came back was "he has been responsible of a dramatic rise in LP membership " "young people are flocking to the Party"** " his policies are the best of any party"

Echo's in a bubble I'm afraid.

He was what ?.....................unelectable .

And it is pointless complaining that "it should be about policy not personality" because that boat sailed years and years ago.. before social media ( think Micheal Foot )

Momentum seem to represent a form of political science....an intellectual concept , a model if you will. It plows ahead with it brilliant blue sky thinking about a perfect world .

It talks an awful lot about the poor and the working class but it leaves me wondering how many of them have ever actually met such people.

Talk of Evette Cooper brings to mind another issue that seems be solely a Labour Party one...that of professional politicians . People who go into politics straight from their university student union position . They become some politicians researcher and then sit and wait to be parachuted into a safe seat somewhere. The entitled Politician.

The labour party as I see it has no , what I would call, statesmen nor stateswomen. I can't bring to mind anyone with any real gravitas. Certainly no one that I could see as ,say, Foreign Secretary. ... and no offence to her gender/race/illness's but Ms Abbott as Home Secretary is a saleable as JC for Prime Minister.
I use to think that Jack Straw and Robin Cook were welter weights but they look like giants compared to the present crop.

Here's a couple of cabinets to pursue ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_Tony_Blair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_Neil_Kinnock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_Michael_Foot

** where were those young people this time ? did they vote ?..if they did then ,excluding their votes , Corbyn was even more rejected by the country as a whole.
 
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Tony, it’s very simple. Too many people sacrifice principles for perceived protection of assets and income. Add that to the the have-nots being mobilised by Faragists and you’re fcuked.
 
It is astonishing how you Labour boys cannot see what is blindingly obvious to anyone to the right of centre.
Left wing politics is disliked by the majority of the country.
The only way Blair managed to become PM was by conning the population into believing that the Labour Party had changed into New Labour, a new moderate centrist version, despite still having old lefties like Corbyn in its midst.
Without another conman who can control the nutters, the Labour Party will never see light of day again.
They have been reduced to an irrelevant, left wing protest party.
 
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