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The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox

Tony L said:
I thought this was a 300 quid DAC board or something, maybe another £100 on top for a nice metal case. I had absolutely no idea some folk were out £3k or so.
Click to expand...
They are only development payments, to get a product you still need cover actual parts and production costs. Not refundable. And that make some people angry as there is no easy way out, except when somebody will want to take over of their investment. For that we need actual product. I would like to help if I could somehow.

It is been long time, maybe it is worth to do some bookkeeping check, to see if there is same numbers on both sides. Also worth to check if there is correct contact address for everybody.

I myself in for FDAC L3 (with ADC) + Phono board, that is 600
Detox, this I am ready to transfer towards FDAC - 50
VFET monoblock amps - 2300. Do not know how that splits because it includes Audiolab monoblock amps as donor units and VFET transistors.
 
Not a FB user like many and so just visited PFM for updates.

I think Tonys last post, one page back is a pragmatic approach that hopefully John will find acceptable.

Like Wintoid I'm also a 'Toy' upgrade purchaser - still using my MDAC and happily listening to it right now.

Checking my old mails I can see that I paid £200 on top of the 'Toy' upgrade and apparently that means I've paid -

£200 for up to & including L2 and L3 (basic) development

I seem to remember L3 (basic) included ADC, possibly DSP?, but not the Phono Stage. I can see from my mails the Phono Stage was an additional development payment, that I decided not to pay.

Still interested in where the project ends up, but tbh my circumstances have changed and so depending on the capabilities of MDAC 1.5, 2 & FDAC and associated timescales, I'm not sure if I'd try to sell my spot.

Be helpful to understand the expected capabilities of 1.5, 2, FDAC in relation to L2, L3.

Due to some hearing problems I'll certainly not be upgrading purely for better sound, I'd need additional functionality that adds to my setup, to spend more.
 
@Tony L
many thanks for your clear and robust interventions.
I'm in for a mere (!) £200, as I'm a Toy/Fusion owner (like @rtrt above).
Of course, John does have a record of all the development payments made to him. Presumably, based on these records, he could tell us what the overall total of development payments is that he's received from PFM members.

Correction (apologies, @Tony L )
1 x £200 (MDAC2)
1 x £50 (Detox)
 
Well I sold my Mdac a few years ago to offset the £400 payment for the illusive MDAC2 L2 whatever it is. I also invested £50 in the detox.

I follow the thread occasionally and wish that the project becomes successful. To be honest I’m not holding out much hope at this stage...
 
I have paid for 2 x of everything incl. two pairs of VFET and I am still optimistic that John will deliver.

Another ESS Sabre DAC would just not be that exciting to me anymore so I think it was the right decision John made to change direction and design a cutting edge discrete DAC instead.
 
...just for the record, I think John will eventually deliver as he has invested a lot in it himself, but taken on too many things so unlikely to be very soon (is my expectation);

To keep things square, my contributions to LakeWest Audio total £1105


Breakdown AFAIK...

£300 October 2014 - MDAC2 Payment :: Combined 1st + 2nd + 3rd Installment

£370 October 2014 - Salvaged MDAC - Black (John has these)

£100 May 2015 - MDAC2 Installment:: L2 (4th) Development Installment

£50 October 2015 - USB Detox Development

£100 January 2016 - FDAC L3 Development Payment

£185 May 2017 - MDAC2 Streamer PCB


Thanks
 
My expenses so far as a development sponsor:

100 GBP 1. Instalment 06.09.2013
370 GBP Salvaged M-DAC 11.11.2013
100 GBP 2. Instalment 11.12.2013
100 GBP 3. Instalment 10.06.2014
2300 GBP VFET 13.12.2014
100 GBP 4. Instalment 13.03.2015
50 GBP Detox Instalment 29.09.2015
100 GBP adc Instalment 14.01.2016
100 GBP phono Instalment 100 GBP 14.01.2016
185 GBP streamer board mdac2 15.05.2017
which is 3505 GBP altogether

And I am one of the few lakewest hardware owner, the MiniStreamer 299 GBP (which is a great piece of kit) arrived savely and well in September 2018.
 
Just for the record:
12/3/15 - MDAC2 - £400
30/3/15 - VFETS - £2300
9/9/15 - Detox - £50

Total - £2750

I have been very patient but don't believe the approach to handle this entire situation has been the best.. Still hoping this will get done and waiting for it but if could have the option of a refund given the more than 4years wait.. I would think about it. Could have put my money on bitcoin and be rich today!! aahha

Ricardo
 
I've paid on
28/12/13 £200 1st and 2nd installment.
13/6/14 £100 3rd installment.
29/3/15 £100 4th installment
12/1/16 £200 fdac L3 ADC+mm/MC.
All the above were for mdac2 which then morphed into fdac
 
@Tony L,
Thank you very much for your intervention.

I'm in for £600, for what used to be an FDAC L3 with phono stage, payments made between Dec. 2013 & Oct. 2016.

The severe tinnitus I've developed since my last installment implies (quite understandably) l'm no longer interested in the final product, would be glad if there should be any other way out.
 
£400 paid total for FDAC development support

£300 - 22/12/2014
£100 - 11/03/2015

It was non-refundable, but there are many questions about how that funding was used and the honourable intent which hasn't stood up very well to scrutiny although I am open to it if it can be explained. It feels to me like John is up to his neck in it and I imagine he would rather never having gotten into this whole thing in the first place which I can sympathise with, but he doesn't make it easy.
 
Just been through my email history to understand exactly what I paid for and when..

ordered/first payments 12/09/2013 (over 6 years ago... :( )
2x Detox (external, black, full screened chassis, UK power)
1x Mdac2 L3 + MC/MM (Black, Master DSP unit)
1x Mdac2 L3 (Black, Slave DSP unit)

Total £1100 paid to date.


The final stage “Production unit cost” £150 ~ £200 + optional Vishay Z-foil resistors + shipping etc.
Click to expand...

Archive.org hold the versions of JohnW's website (http://mdac2.lakewestaudio.com/) at various stages of it being changed:
For EG when I signed up it was this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140717213005/http://mdac2.lakewestaudio.com/

Project roadmap

Before presenting the planned project schedule, it is important to stress that any timeframes given are only our best estimates and cannot be relied upon completely. We are undertaking development of the very best DAC possible and that is the primary goal which necessarily takes precedence to meeting any self-inflicted deadlines. After all what good is a DAC delivered on time, but knowingly crippled? That said, let’s look at the milestones and projected timeframes and the related installment payment schedule.

Stage 1 (First £100 installment)

  • Beginning of September ’13 – Official start of the project.
  • End of September ’13 – Completed circuit design and simulations of new analogue stage and power supply circuitry.
  • Beginning of October ’13 – Start of prototype PCB layout to verify the newly developed analogue and PSU circuits.
  • End of October ’13 – Prototype PCB design finished and manufacturing data issued to PCB vendor.

Stage 2 (Second £100 installment)

  • Middle of November ’13 – Prototype PCB built, tested and qualified on the bench, starting design of the MDAC2 mainboard.
  • End of January ’14 – MDAC2 mainboard design finished and manufacturing data issued to PCB vendor.

Stage 3 (Third £100 installment)

  • End of February ’14 – MDAC2 mainboard prototype built, tested and qualified

Stage 4 The final stage “Production unit cost” £150 ~ £200 + optional Vishay Z-foil resistors + shipping etc.

  • Beginning of March ’14 – placing orders for production quantities of material. Owners of Level 2 upgraded MDAC’s only get to pay the final installment that covers the production and shipping costs of the new Mainboard
  • End of March ’14 – first MDAC2 mainboards coming off the production line
Click to expand...
 
For me:
Detox £50 28/08/2015
FDAC L3 & MC/MM development payment £100 13/01/2016
MDAC2 - L2 development payment £100 07/07/2015

As I was a Fusion customer the promise was-

MDAC2 L3 (ADC version) £200 development cost (after £300 credit for Toy / Fusion owners) + “At cost” PCB £350 to £450 + Shipping

I thought I had paid more but can’t find any evidence.
 
Hi Tony,

For the record, I'm in for a pair of VFET monobloc amps (£2,300), an MDAC2 DAC (£450) and a Detox (£50). All these are the development costs; final production costs to be confirmed.

On a positive note, I believe your idea of a forum for investors only will provide the degree of shelter from the critics that John would appreciate. Sure, most investors aren't happy but I believe we'll all be pacified to an extent if we receive more regular updates.

I know far too much about Facebook to ever wish to have an account so, like many others, I also only get updates here so your efforts are appreciated.
 
I wanted an FDAC Level 3
I have paid £ 500
The first payment was £400 on 8 Jan 2016 and the second payment was £100 on 12 Jan 2016.
I no longer wish to purchase the FDAC for 2 reasons.
My son got into financial difficulties and I had to help him out and I can no longer afford to pay any final balance.
In any case from what I can see the FDAC is also going to be a lot more expensive than originally anticipated and I would not want to spend that amount on a piece of equipment that I would not be able to hear clearly as my second reason is that I now suffer from substantial hearing loss. I am 71 years old now.
I asked for a refund sometime ago and was told that it was expected that when the equipment was ready there would probably be more people interested and I could have a refund then.
 
I was invested in FDAC L3 and a pair of VFETS. Original payments made December 2014 and Jan 2015 of £4K. Due to ill health and financial circumstances I asked for a refund. This was declined but part of the balance which was for a short term to John was returned in Nov 2018. Leaving a balance of £2700. I have all the original emails and conversations saved as an audit.

I’ve now sold my original MDAC as I was anticipating delivery of the FDAC which does not require a donor case. Now that the FDAC seems further off I am unable to go for the MDAC 1.5/2.0, unless John has a unit available, which is a double blow.
I’m hesitant to post these details here but wish to add my details for record.

The best outcome would be for the delivery of the promised goods.
I do wish John all the best and hope he pushes through to the end and that the results are so good that it raises the demand to enable those who no longer want a product to get their money back by selling on.

John did support the repairs and upgrades of the original MDAC and I invested in the Fusion version which really was an excellent DAC. He was very helpful in offering these services and went out his way to do what he could.

But.... because of the understandable back lash here due to lack of any product being delivered I think that this will effect the resale of these product and will not return the amount invested.

here’s hoping ...
 
I left this project many years ago, frustrated ... I tried to settle with John discreetly over the course of more than a year after I turned my back on this thread.

I actually told myself not to look back, but my hope to one day see a real product being delivered, still kept me passing by from time to time.

@Tony L your initiative is very much needed and I'm grateful you are standing up for us PFM members!

My investments payed on 10. December 2014:

900£ for 3 x MDAC2 L2


If required, the Paypal transaction confirmation, payment confirmation by Renata and a lot of correspondence with John can be provided.
 
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