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Way to go Greta

Marky-Mark said:
It's a serious question. And I'm not asking the question to start an argument or as a gratuitous insult. If the point is to raise awareness, then fine, that's a perfectly good thing to do. But when you start saying you're going to do everything in your power to stop something from happening, which assumes that is even possible, I need something beyond those words. I really don't think that's being unreasonable.
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pedantic. If you really think that the work she is doing is not achieving anything at all, then you're in some parallel universe. And what, anyway are YOU doing exactly? Maybe if you get off the internet and go out and DO something, you too could make a difference. (A difference does not to be measured or weighed, it just needs to be worked at).
 
Rockmeister said:
If you really think that the work she is doing is not achieving anything at all,
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meaningful change, would be governments changing policy immediately, immediate and drastic reductions in the emissions that lead to climate change....do I see any meaningful changes? NO

Hence it is logical to conclude that nothing is being achieved.

Mind you if you count achievement as a few speeches, resulting in some nodding heads and perhaps a few long term statements (oh we might do something by 2050), then maybe something has been achieved.

In my book, nothing meaningful has happened or been achieved


Rockmeister said:
A difference does not to be measured or weighed, it just needs to be worked at).
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How naive, of course it does, seeing change motivates people and you cant see it without measuring it or having some quantifiable evidence. You might not need to see the actual impact.

Rockmeister said:
DO something
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so what do you DO? perhaps you can set us an example?
 
Rockmeister said:
pedantic. If you really think that the work she is doing is not achieving anything at all, then you're in some parallel universe. And what, anyway are YOU doing exactly? Maybe if you get off the internet and go out and DO something, you too could make a difference. (A difference does not to be measured or weighed, it just needs to be worked at).
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Why always with the hostility? I never said she wasn't achieving anything - I'm well aware of how she's raised awareness. But isn't that all she's going to do? Al Gore's two movies have been seen by millions. The Guardian publishes several climate articles a day, every day. Multiply that by god knows how many more articles and news stories on any given day ... and for decades now.

I guess what I'm really asking is just how much awareness does it take for all the aware and unaware people to realize that a whole lot of people are sufficiently aware, but they're apparently never going to be aware enough to care about getting a straight answer on why with all the science pointing to unavoidable catastrophe nothing is being done other than raise more awareness that we have to do something to prevent the unavoidable. It blew by pathological and is barreling head-on into certifiable at this point.
 
P.S The answer to your question involves multiple deaths. Even I, the green eyed monster, have trouble countenancing, for example, walking into a petrol company's head office and holding people at gunpoint until a positive outcome is achieved. And yet, as this thread illustrates, perhaps violence is an answer.
 
avole said:
Explain what she should have done more, and why obviously wiser people such as yourself did nothing, either.
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More hostility. I don't have a solution. I never claimed to have one. And that's mostly because there isn't one that I can imagine with a shred of possibility beyond advanced and merciful aliens or divine intervention.

I'm asking why is no one stepping up with some hard questions when she uses phrases that imply there is a solution when anyone paying attention knows that 2c, and likely 3c, is baked in, right now, even if we had a switch to turn everything off. And if you believe science, that's extinction level heat. It's insane, the denial and the endless parade of awareness.
 
avole said:
P.S The answer to your question involves multiple deaths. Even I, the green eyed monster, have trouble countenancing, for example, walking into a petrol company's head office and holding people at gunpoint until a positive outcome is achieved. And yet, as this thread illustrates, perhaps violence is an answer.
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There have already been multiple deaths. They're still retrieving bodies in the Bahamas from what was actually a category 6 cyclone that sat on top of an island for days and obliterated it. How many cat-5 cyclones have there been in the past couple of years? How much rainforest is ablaze? Or the arctic? How much ice is melting today? How close is Australia to collapse right now? I could keep going but it's senseless because not enough people are aware yet.
 
It isn't hostility, by the way, I think you argue well. The fact is the hard questions will never be answered, as they aren't even catered for in anybody's economic or political system at present. At least Greta is makng people think, hence this thread.

That doesn't mean I support the Ostrich solution, by the way. As I've mentioned, it was only when discussing this with a couple of French schoolkids I'd given a lift to that, when one said "I can accept it's too late. But it may not be too late for my kids and their kids which is why we shoulld try " that I realised that saving the panet is no longer the goal. Yes, France, christianity and all that, but she had a point.
 
Possibly. However, why don't you (as in GT), marky mark, myself Rockmeister and (ideally) Joe Hutch do a conference call/podcast debate on this? Then people can see us, listen to what we say and make up their own minds?
 
gintonic said:
so what do you DO? perhaps you can set us an example?
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Like walking and cycling, consuming organic food and veggies, feeding oneself not getting stuffed, buying as little superfluous junk as possible, saving water and energy, re-using and re-cicling, and more importantly voting Green?
 
tuga said:
Give the guy some slack, he's from the US of A
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That's a very hopeful video. But we're simply not on the same page. I'm going to post a link to someone's FB page. It's been shared over 50 thousand times by people of all walks, from normal Joes to climate scientists and doctors. It's been made into pamphlets that are distributed at Gretta Thunberg's "School Strikes." You should probably read it. It may help you understand why I'm a little confused when Thunberg talks about preventing what's coming. And yes, I'm from the USA. I disapprove of what my country does more each day, but I don't feel ashamed to say I'm an American. I also don't try to shame people from other countries. Happy reading.

https://www.facebook.com/SoilLifeQuadra/posts/10156656875720199
 
Marky-Mark said:
That's a very hopeful video. But we're simply not on the same page. I'm going to post a link to someone's FB page. It's been shared over 50 thousand times by people of all walks, from normal Joes to climate scientists and doctors. It's been made into pamphlets that are distributed at Gretta Thunberg's "School Strikes." You should probably read it. It may help you understand why I'm a little confused when Thunberg talks about preventing what's coming. And yes, I'm from the USA. I disapprove of what my country does more each day, but I don't feel ashamed to say I'm an American. I also don't try to shame people from other countries. Happy reading.

https://www.facebook.com/SoilLifeQuadra/posts/10156656875720199
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marky.

i didn't realize how long that FB posting was, so more careful reading will have to wait until tomorrow. i did, however, give it the sort of effort matt damon got away with in "good will hunting". an interesting bit at the start (just picking up on it as a point of conversation, not a summation of post -- i agree with you about the activism contradiction you point out):

"The IPCC report and Paris accord are incredibly overly optimistic and that commits the world to a target that means the death of hundreds of millions if not more."

this may seem like an attempt to dislodge you as persona non grata ( greta ) in the thread, but i would venture to suggest that, to really save the planet (barring delusional belief in a technological miracle), we ultimately need either the death of billions of humans or something like an immediate 1/100th of a child per family policy for a long while. of course, capitalism and its cultural myths can't work under those conditions and that's the #1 elephant in the climate lecture hall.

i'm one of those disagreeable people who believe things like notre dame cathedral (minus the wealthy benefactors) and sublimity of a healthy ecosystem are more important than billions of humans. especially the sort who can't imagine a life without car, smart phone and burgers worth living. we have turned ourselves into nasty, ungrateful pests.
 
Vuk, I agree with much of your last two paragraphs and anybody who talks about the 'sustainability' of a global human population of 10 billion is probably an enemy of the people. We need to tread more lightly on the planet, and that means, in all probability, a population of <5 billion at a rough guess.

My bigger concern is for wildlife and the greater ecosystem. We are only just beginning to learn about the importance of microbial life and soil biodiversity, and the damage that artificial fertilisers may be doing to that balance; and evidence is growing about catastrophic collapses in the insect population. As the apex predator, we seem to be undermining the very foundations on which we rely.
 
vuk said:
iespecially the sort who can't imagine a life without car, smart phone and burgers worth living. we have turned ourselves into nasty, ungrateful pests.
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Ironically, it's not these types of people that are at the greatest risk, or on the "frontline" if you like.
 
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