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Cartridge fitting

But the thread is about fitting a new cartridge to a Rega RP6.

“Speed check I cannot see any other way than reference tone played on the turntable as you need to do it real life with cartridge drag taken into account , some manufacturers like SME set speed bit higher to account for it .”

Stylus drag is a very contentious issue. I would put forward that any turntable drive system that slows under stylus drag is improperly designed. I have looked into the whole subject in depth and made many measurements (including using test records). It is certainly not a given that platter speed varies under load.

However, if you use a 12” strobe disc and a 10” EP record it is possible to use a strobe whilst a record is playing - I have done this but I have also used test tones and Audacity and a scope etc.
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I actually have a bunch of test records that I have acquired over the years. However, I still adhere to the belief that, for the vast majority of enthusiasts, they are of no real value.
You see there are engineering standards when it comes to measurement and test methodology , in case of speed flutter measurement AES clearly states 3150Hz test tone must be used and measurement taken using 2-sigma meter , there is much more to it like using notch filter to compensate for speed wobble due to record centering and to discard turntable bearing effect . Not sure how you tested speed with oscilloscope unless you meant frequency meter .
As I said no point arguing about I will use test records you don't so be it ,
PS : if you like I would gladly buy yours depending on what you have and condition.
 
In most decks I can't see that azimuth could ever easily be wrong if the plinth, platter and headshell are true. Hence the Ortofon mechanism for adjusting it probably causes more to be wrong than right. The only deck I'm aware of where it requires any particular attention is the Orbe since the clamp bends the record surface downwards from the centre to make a very short cone. Best get an arm or cart with some sort of adjustment if you have one of those (and I do), otherwise what's the issue?

I assume you're talking about getting cartridge parallel to the platter which in majority of the cases has not much to do with azimuth .
Azimuth is about positioning stylus in the groove , which changes position of the stylus-groove contact area but more importantly throws generator out of it's ideal working position . This means that additional voltage is generated from one channel to the other - so called crosstalk . But there is another "but" - signal phase angle is affected greatly .
One may say stylus should be perpendicular to cartridge body , I'm afraid in most cases it isn't - closes I ever seen was 0.5 degree , with azimuth fairly big change don't produce a massive difference in crosstalk neither channel balance but result in a fairly big difference in the phase angle .
What azimuth affects? Channel balance and stereo image due to phase discrepancy.
 
Yes, I’m well aware there are standards for measuring wow, flutter etc. I am also well aware that the majority (all that I have encountered in fact) of test records, aimed at the non-professional, are not up to truly meeting the standards you refer to so using them is somewhat pointless, even by your own definition of their value.
 
I suspect azimuth is out on more than just my Ittok LVIII arm which being a glued fixed headshell not even J7 could sort - (he has been known to "elongate" the screw holes which are used to fix the headshell to the tube on LVII Ittoks ) . I believe that mine was not the only Linn arm he had seen with this problem. In the end and following his advice I placed a shim under one of the arm base fixing screws to try and improve things. I think it´s now perfect, honest.
 
Having just spent the day with lots of mild swearing setting the azimuth on an SME IV/Koetsu Red, it is not always neccesarily the headshell being straight that puts it correct. In fact, I needed a fair bit of twist to get it slotted in the groove correctly...but man, was it like the heavens opened when I got it right. I'll never overlook azimuth adjustment ever again, and wont ever get a fixed headshell. The stress and the pain in the eyes it causes trying to see the bastard thing is worth it.
 
Ok, so how does changing the speed of rotation of the tt by a fraction of a percent change the cartridge alignment? I am all ears.
 
Ok, so how does changing the speed of rotation of the tt by a fraction of a percent change the cartridge alignment? I am all ears.
you must read my reply again then ,
what I said is "cartridge is a part of turntable playback" - meaning if preceding part in the reproduction chain is at fault it does affect all others , no one said it changes alignment ,
 
So where did we get with this ????

A bloke wants a bit of help fitting a cartridge.

An OCD tosser chimes in saying "is way more complicated than you think, azimuth is the key"

I happen to own only one of about three top quality arms in the universe you can actually adjust it on easily and as far as I know the only TT where you may actually need to, and all I do is line up the reflection of the cartridge in the record surface.

If it was important all arms could do it and cartridge manufacturers should hang their heads in shame for not being able to properly manufacture their product.

I don't think I need an oscilloscope to line up my cart, a protractor does me. The tracking angle is right twice per side, at the protractor alignment points. Similarly the azimuth is perfectly right at about two points on the record assuming my "cone" is actually a parabola.

There is no way record replay can ever be perfect with anything other than a linear tracking arm and even then there are design compromises that trade off against a pivot arm such as lack of rigidity at the pivot for any air bearing linear tracker.

Mr OCD had just better hang himself since he will never achieve the perfection he seeks!

The rest of us can just get on with it as best we can.
 
So where did we get with this ????

A bloke wants a bit of help fitting a cartridge.

An OCD tosser chimes in saying "is way more complicated than you think, azimuth is the key"

I happen to own only one of about three top quality arms in the universe you can actually adjust it on easily and as far as I know the only TT where you may actually need to, and all I do is line up the reflection of the cartridge in the record surface.

If it was important all arms could do it and cartridge manufacturers should hang their heads in shame for not being able to properly manufacture their product.

I don't think I need an oscilloscope to line up my cart, a protractor does me. The tracking angle is right twice per side, at the protractor alignment points. Similarly the azimuth is perfectly right at about two points on the record assuming my "cone" is actually a parabola.

There is no way record replay can ever be perfect with anything other than a linear tracking arm and even then there are design compromises that trade off against a pivot arm such as lack of rigidity at the pivot for any air bearing linear tracker.

Mr OCD had just better hang himself since he will never achieve the perfection he seeks!

The rest of us can just get on with it as best we can.

You poor hostile person if you have spent half of the time it took you to write all this insults on reading what azimuth is and the other on looking for a meaning of a word “discussion” you would realise that you still didn’t grasp idea of neither.

Have a good life , I’ll stick you on ignore list and you know what your first achievement ever , you are first and only there , bye.
 
To be fair, Azimuth is very important, even more so on carts with certain tips, and especially as the cantilevers aren't always straight from the factory. Mine comes down at a slight angle, so the small amount of adjustment I have in the headshell has been really useful to set it properly. Before I did this, I was unimpressed with such an expensive cart, now I am over the moon with it. I did do this by eye and ears though (and swearing).
 
To be fair, Azimuth is very important, even more so on carts with certain tips, and especially as the cantilevers aren't always straight from the factory. Mine comes down at a slight angle, so the small amount of adjustment I have in the headshell has been really useful to set it properly. Before I did this, I was unimpressed with such an expensive cart, now I am over the moon with it. I did do this by eye and ears though (and swearing).

In all fairness azimuth, speed test , etc.. was a part of discussion about should test records been an addition to cartridge setup process.

In 21st century there is more ways of taking measurements than oscilloscope and azimuth adjustment could be done in different ways , most check crosstalk only which is still better than geometrical adjustments, you can use Fozgometer or alike or go with voltmeter method - I think it was Fremer who promoted this .

There is computer aided software ie dr Feickert, Analog Magik - bit expensive so I’d advise to use oscilloscope emulating software, plenty of free ones ,

If you like , few years back I bought dr Feickert software, I think it’s been returned to me lately and I have brand new test LP as well , you can borrow it and see if improves things bit more . I’ll PM you after I’m back from holiday.
 


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