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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+22)?

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I imagine that would be. In the mean time there's no point sacking people who you need to win around, and may well still be able to: apparently 5 of the 8 hadn't rebelled on Brexit before, so they're not die hards. WTF they're actually thinking then I don't know. But underlying it, according to Stephen Bush anyway, is the assumption that this isn't the last chance they'll get to stop no deal (Bush isn't so sure).
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/britain-heads-no-deal-mps-gamble-brexit
17 labour abstentions too...on the nod from Magic Grandpa?

More than the the tories 12...even...
 
Ian Blackford's tweet helpfully lists the backsliders https://twitter.com/IanBlackfordMP/status/1138855220837015558
We lost the motion today that would have created the circumstances to stop no deal by 11votes. All 35 SNP MPs voted for the motion but only 222 Labour MPs supported the motion. 8 voted against, 17 abstained. Unforgivable. Little wonder Labour are an irrelevance in Scotland.
 
...there's no point sacking people who you need to win around, and may well still be able to: apparently 5 of the 8 hadn't rebelled on Brexit before, so they're not die hards.
Seems like the winning around process is going slightly backwards, then.
 
Rory Stewart’s thin veneer of common sense fell off and shattered on the ground on C4 news earlier when Cathy Newman challenged him on why he’d sided with the hard-Brexiters and voted with the government despite all his prior rhetoric. His defence was hopelessly weak.

I agree. But I've always thought he was all talk.

Dominic Grieve on the other hand is looking more like a man of principle. His days as Conservative are numbered. As are Stewart's.

Stephen
 
Most of the Labour abstentions were paired with Tories - which explains the Tory abstentions too.
The Tories have welched on pairing votes before- most infamously, Jo Swinson’s when she was having a baby. Where were all these Tory MPs? Let me guess- at their leadership launches or at their French villa. Pairing should only be for absence in exceptional circumstances like serious illness. That 25 Labour MPs voted with or abstained to let the Tories defeat another move to prevent a hard Brexit is utterly shameless and Ive no doubt this will be the final nail in their coffin in Scotland . Good f***ing riddance.
 
I did think of another route out of the Brexit mess last night.

Rename the May bill the ‘Boris’ bill. That’s more friendly.

Rename the backstop the ‘help our chums’ clause.

That’ll get the deal through.

Stephen
 
I think Tom Kibasi's analysis is the only one that makes any sense now. If we assume, and we must, that the whole game is to keep the Tories in one piece, and in control of the country, a GE as we face the cliff-edge is a given. No-one will vote for Farage's lot if no-deal is in a Tory manifesto
 
So the bill to try and give parliament the power to stop a no deal Brexit passed because of Labour abstainers and those voting with the Government.

Stephen
 
I think Tom Kibasi's analysis is the only one that makes any sense now. If we assume, and we must, that the whole game is to keep the Tories in one piece, and in control of the country, a GE as we face the cliff-edge is a given. No-one will vote for Farage's lot if no-deal is in a Tory manifesto

From the article:
"The intention is to set the stage for a snap general election in October, where he will blame an intransigent and unreasonable EU – the same game he has played for nearly 30 years.

If an October general election does occur, no deal will in all likelihood be the Conservative manifesto, a political imperative created by the rise of the Brexit party and by May’s years of foolish posturing that “no deal is better than a bad deal”. Expect Nigel Farage to stand down his army of Brexit extremists once he has achieved his goal of radicalising the Conservatives."
He can't have a snap GE without the support of other parties in Parliament, and specifically Labour have the numbers to prevent it. If it looked likely that Tom Kibasi's analysis was correct and Johnson wanted a snap election to increase the number of Tory MPs to force through no deal, would Labour consider the risk that by voting for an election they might enable a Tory hard Brexit and 5 more years?
 
This thread often seems to come back to fathoming Labour's thoughts, but they are always on the back foot. Surely, all the government at the time has to do is resign, go and see Brenda, and a GE follows?
 
This thread often seems to come back to fathoming Labour's thoughts, but they are always on the back foot. Surely, all the government at the time has to do is resign, go and see Brenda, and a GE follows?
If that's the case then what is the point of the fixed term Parliament act? I'd expect that under those circumstances Labour would be invited to try to form a government?
 
This thread often seems to come back to fathoming Labour's thoughts, but they are always on the back foot. Surely, all the government at the time has to do is resign, go and see Brenda, and a GE follows?

No, that's how it used to be. Fixed term parliaments is the current position.
 
In fairness they had some help.

Who from?

You can't say The Tories of DUP as they are both keen on Brexit in any way they can get it through.

Labour could have brought the new Johnson cabinet to the sensible table, if those Labour MPs had voted for it.

As it is, those MPs are culpable for whatever happens.

Stephen
 
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