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Ribbon tweeters, the answer to stridency?

awkwardbydesign said:
... but the crossover would have be changed if you wanted to add them to an existing speaker, including the mid driver's low pass section.
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If the OP doesn't want to add a resistor to the HP filter, I don't think he'll entertain this suggestion - even if I think this is the primary answer to the question.

How about a parametric equaliser? The OP can then selectively dial out the annoying peaks. Oh wait, he does not want tone controls either.

New loudspeakers then ...
 
A speaker cable with a L-R step filter, cutting high treble by 1-2dB could be a successful product. A parallel combination of 220uH and 2R2, placed in series with most speakers would be about right
 
My current speakers (Quadral CS8s) have ribbon tweeters that have been voiced to not be strident. I've had speakers with soft dome & metal domes. I contend that it's the cross-over design that matters the most rather the technology used. By the law of averages, I'm sure there have been some dreadful designs with ribbon tweeters - either due to poorly designed tweeters or poor implementation.
Added:
The treble is also pretty low in distortion. Quadral, although not that well-known in the UK, have a great deal of experience with both ribbons & domed tweeters.
 
The CS8 is a 3-way, which would seem to be pre-requisite to get a ribbon to behave.
Quadral also seem to have resisted the temptation to show off the expensive ribbon driver as so many makes do
 
I’ve had many metal dome speakers, none of which were as strident as some might say. (Apart from some early MA concoctions which were just plain orrible).

First thing I did was shift the Pioneer player on and things got a lot sweeter.

Early digital players were often partnered with amps or speakers with a rolled off treble. Stuff that is considered too dull in a modern system.
 
myrman said:
I have had a few pairs of Elacs with ribbon tweeters and certainly never found them strident.
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Interesting i have owned Elac jets and audiovector sig speakers and although not entirely strident they are very obvious. As said great with some music but desperate with others.
They can become detached and demanding.
I avoid them now along with metal dome tweeters and still prefer well designed silk domed tweeters.
 
Frankiesays said:
My system suffers slightly from stridency, no matter how I configure it. I currently use Ruark Talisman II, I was wondering whether speakers with ribbon tweeters would mellow the higher frequencies, I listen to a lot of modern jazz on cd, and the sax/trumpets grate somewhat. I want a real change, so are ribbon tweeters a solution? If so please reccommend some decent ones for under £500 used. I am currently inbetween switching amps but am waiting on a pre amp to try with my newly acquired Quad 306. I use a TT through a Graham Slee Era V, and an old Pioneer cdp with the stable platter mech, cds upside down! Do a bit of streaming too.
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DimitryZ said:
You should be able to get nice treble from many tweeter designs, including the one in the Talisman. From the reviews, the speaker is reputed to have an "enthusiastic" treble. I wonder, if a bit of room treatment, speaker placement or even some absorptive foam or felt around the tweeter would make the treble nicer to listen to? Some warm sounding interconnects and/or speaker cables (PC-OCC or similar) should help as well.
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If you read between the lines "enthusiastic treble" probably means too much of it.
Either EQ or get new speakers with a flat response regardless of tweeter type.
But do note that some (hard-domed) tweeters do produce breakup resonances very close to the audible band and may sound "sparkly" or downright nasty. As a general rule I have learned to keep away from hard cones and domes as much as possible...
 
Having listened to silk dome, metal dome and ribbon tweeter designs it sounds to me like the crossover is more important.

Of the speakers I've listened to recently it seems that I like the metal domes more. They give the speaker a faster, more detailed as well as sophisticated and extended treble.

The last two speakers with metal domes I've had were Neat Momentums and then LS4a which I've thoroughly enjoyed and were no way "strident".
 
davidsrsb said:
The CS8 is a 3-way, which would seem to be pre-requisite to get a ribbon to behave.
Quadral also seem to have resisted the temptation to show off the expensive ribbon driver as so many makes do
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Perhaps because they've been using them for quite a while so don't feel the need to shout about them or from them for that matter.
Quadral do make several 2 way models - some costing far more than my CS8s that are pretty similar to Quad's Z3s. Quad also make 2 way speakers with ribbons - I cannot comment on how effective these designs are in practice.
 
Reading Frankies original posts he would like to make sax and trumpet more mellow. I think this would be a tall order for any tweeter as these sort of instruments were designed to go into battle without the need for any amplification at all.

But if you must check out ribbon tweeters, Monitor Audios GX50 is a beautifully executed use of them. The treble stunningly detailed and airy with the right kit, and is delightful in a smaller room. £500 in my local Cash Convertors.

They won’t mellow out the trumpets though. Unfortunately, but cest la vie.
 
demotivated said:
Frankie, you need to post your locale and go have a day with some local bores while they still exist. Take some tunes you like and try to get out alive. Bake-offs sound a great idea, but in reality too many people are trying to do too much, but they are very sociable and you always see/hear something interesting. Even if someone just plugs a different amp and cables in your speakers, you will see some effect..
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I think this is a good idea.
 
Minio said:
Reading Frankies original posts he would like to make sax and trumpet more mellow. I think this would be a tall order for any tweeter as these sort of instruments were designed to go into battle without the need for any amplification at all.
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Jazz (and classical) is typically the very best recorded music out there. I’m amazed anyone has a problem with anything from the stereo era on any even half decent system. The only thing I can bring to mind is it does tend to be cut with a far, far higher dynamic range than typical rock/pop (especially modern stuff which often has next to none), so I wonder if something is clipping somewhere? If one were to set the average/median level the same between say a nice ECM recording and say a Red Hot Chilli Peppers or Flaming Lips CD then the peaks of the former would be about 15db higher!
 
Minio said:
But if you must check out ribbon tweeters, Monitor Audios GX50 is a beautifully executed use of them. The treble stunningly detailed and airy with the right kit, and is delightful in a smaller room. £500 in my local Cash Convertors.

They won’t mellow out the trumpets though. Unfortunately, but cest la vie.
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The GX50 (purple trace) measure very well, no boom and tizz to this model. Just the slightest high treble lift, which only compensates for the vertical plane beaming.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/monitor-audio-gold-gx50-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures
 
Tony L said:
Jazz (and classical) is typically the very best recorded music out there. I’m amazed anyone has a problem with anything from the stereo era on any even half decent system!
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If I were Frankiesays (where's 'e gone?) I'd be looking at the source. Those sort of cd players never had the subtlety for me to enjoy jazz music. The top end being typically brash and wearing, after a while.

I've heard Talismans sound pretty good though.
 
Minio said:
If I were Frankiesays (where's 'e gone?) I'd be looking at the source. Those sort of cd players never had the subtlety for me to enjoy jazz music. The top end being typically brash and wearing, after a while.

I've heard Talismans sound pretty good though.
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Pioneer PD 8700, do I need to go and buy an expensive Naim cdp??
 
It may work out cheaper to replace the CD player if that is the cause. Do you have a friend you could borrow a player off?
 
If you really think it's down to the CD player, then I'd suggest looking at old tda1541 players. I use an old Sony 337ESD that's as smooth as silk.
 
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