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Would you vote for the Soubry/Umunna party?

What is too far to the left about Labour policies?
Anyone not wet behind the ears can only wonder at these 8/11 being described as centre ground politicians-they are Tories..
I think it's more a question of perception. If Tom Watson, is, to paraphrase, struggling to recognise his own party, then what hope is there for the non-political centrists like myself? I am old enough to have lived through the economic cock-ups of previous Labour government's. I also have major issues with Corbyn and anti-semitism. This is borne out by some of his defectors within his party. My Jewish friends in the UK have noticed a considerable rise in anti-semitism in recent years. Corbyn is also perceived as a rather wooly thinker and so indecisive and non-committal as to be a liability if he ever got to no 10. When asked straight forward questions about condemning anti-semitism and the IRA , his response has always been on the lines of " I of course conden all forms or racism/ terrorism etc etc". He has made it fairly clear that he would never use our nuclear deterrent. His handling of Brexit has been fairly atrocious. The Conservatives have never been in more of a mess and yet Corbyn and his close alias seem incapable of making any ground against them. Does all this add up to a swing to the left? Maybe, maybe not, but it adds up to an ineffective opposition to the Conservatives, IMHO.
 
I have no idea if they can ever become a "party". However, from watching some of the parliamentary/committee sessions both Allen and Wollaston (as mentioned up thread) seem more capable than most. First flicker for me that perhaps something better could emerge from the chaos.

Steve
Agreed, watching with interest.
 
I think it's more a question of perception. If Tom Watson, is, to paraphrase, struggling to recognise his own party, then what hope is there for the non-political centrists like myself? I am old enough to have lived through the economic cock-ups of previous Labour government's. I also have major issues with Corbyn and anti-semitism. This is borne out by some of his defectors within his party. My Jewish friends in the UK have noticed a considerable rise in anti-semitism in recent years. Corbyn is also perceived as a rather wooly thinker and so indecisive and non-committal as to be a liability if he ever got to no 10. When asked straight forward questions about condemning anti-semitism and the IRA , his response has always been on the lines of " I of course conden all forms or racism/ terrorism etc etc". He has made it fairly clear that he would never use our nuclear deterrent. His handling of Brexit has been fairly atrocious. The Conservatives have never been in more of a mess and yet Corbyn and his close alias seem incapable of making any ground against them. Does all this add up to a swing to the left? Maybe, maybe not, but it adds up to an ineffective opposition to the Conservatives, IMHO.
So there's nothing 'too far to the left' then. Labour's economic cock-ups-really???? Nukes:you'd like to see a leader willing to end the world-jesus h.
 
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What is too far to the left about Labour policies?
Nothing when it comes to what is currently written down. But the leadership is not trusted it to leave it there or to work with those from the centre or right of the party. Labour is no longer seen as an argumentative broad church but one that has been taken over by the hard left. I suspect one of the things that has lead to such a very slow response has been the successful ejection of the hard left in the past. Not much sign of that happening at the moment. If the centre and right of the party do leave in significant numbers then the hard left will be able to be a bit more open about their beliefs and to enjoy the wholehearted support of the few percent of the population that is likely to agree with them. It would be a lot healthier than the current setup.
 
Little more than two years ago, having just participated in a select committee on the issue, Umunna stated just that: he had never encountered any antisemitism in the party. Never, ever seen any evidence of it.

In fairness that was well before the door was opened wide and all the old radicalised SWP/Militant crap flew back into the party!
 
Nothing when it comes to what is currently written down. But the leadership is not trusted it to leave it there or to work with those from the centre or right of the party. Labour is no longer seen as an argumentative broad church but one that has been taken over by the hard left. I suspect one of the things that has lead to such a very slow response has been the successful ejection of the hard left in the past. Not much sign of that happening at the moment. If the centre and right of the party do leave in significant numbers then the hard left will be able to be a bit more open about their beliefs and to enjoy the wholehearted support of the few percent of the population that is likely to agree with them. It would be a lot healthier than the current setup.
Not trusted.... You are aware the Labour is the largest political party in Europe? I posted before that too many pfmers seem happy to describe policies to the right of the Wilson Gov in the 60's as 'hard left'-this is ridiculous and symptomatic of the endless barrage from the right wing media desperate to prevent very reasonable/equitable social/economic policies being implemented...
 
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I think it's more a question of perception. If Tom Watson, is, to paraphrase, struggling to recognise his own party, then what hope is there for the non-political centrists like myself? I am old enough to have lived through the economic cock-ups of previous Labour government's. I also have major issues with Corbyn and anti-semitism. This is borne out by some of his defectors within his party. My Jewish friends in the UK have noticed a considerable rise in anti-semitism in recent years. Corbyn is also perceived as a rather wooly thinker and so indecisive and non-committal as to be a liability if he ever got to no 10. When asked straight forward questions about condemning anti-semitism and the IRA , his response has always been on the lines of " I of course conden all forms or racism/ terrorism etc etc". He has made it fairly clear that he would never use our nuclear deterrent. His handling of Brexit has been fairly atrocious. The Conservatives have never been in more of a mess and yet Corbyn and his close alias seem incapable of making any ground against them. Does all this add up to a swing to the left? Maybe, maybe not, but it adds up to an ineffective opposition to the Conservatives, IMHO.

Bob, I'm sure you're a jolly decent chap but I'm genuinely struggling to understand you. What is a 'non political centrist? Where is the centre? How can you be 'non political' yet comment on a clearly political thread and place yourself somewhere along a 'right-left' continuum with no hint as to where other than an undefined 'centre'? How can you decry Labour's alleged 'economic cock ups' ( I thought most people understood that Broon didn't really single handedly cause the World Economic Crisis of 2008).. and yet not decry the economic cock ups of the Tories? Further, knowing what the Tories have delighted in doing to the ordinary people of this country.. how can you be remotely 'comfortable' with them.. with or without their lap dogs?
 
There is however little doubt that the current Labour leadership have failed to handle the issue or protect Jewish members or MPs. I suspect Corbyn must take the blame for this as he apprars to allow an ideological hatred of Israel to cloud his judgement. Exactly the same paralysis and inaction we see over Brexit.

Labour have been very slow to deal with antisemitism, but I don't think Corbyn is an antisemite.

Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Dr Sarah Wollaston will sit next to The Independent Group in Parliament. This doesn't mean they have joined them yet.

Some of the Independent Group, including Joan Ryan, should have been deselected anyway. They hate Corbyn and left wing politics.

Shai Masota, senior political officer at the Israeli embassy in London, told Ryan in 2016 that Jeremy Corbyn was "crazy." The Israeli government has tried to undermine both Labour and Tory politicians who support Palestinian rights.

Masota has taken delegations of Labour members on trips to Israel and told Joan Ryan, the chair of Labour Friends of Israel, that he had been approved £1m ($1.2m) to fund further visits.

George Galloway is trying to get back into Labour. He was on Sky this morning and argued the broadcaster has footage of Masota saying this, but never shows it. Imagine if Corbyn had been given 1 Million quid by Putin to take Labour MPs to Russia, he pointed out, it would be put on a loop by Sky.

You can read and see about this issue in theCanary https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysi...unty-for-labour-insiders-to-undermine-corbyn/

And also The Daily Mail https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

Jack
 
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Meanwhile.. all those perfectly reasonable and honest members of the Tories, are left to continue their sterling efforts on all our behalf. That so smartly dressed and nicely spoken Mr Rees-Mogg, that jovial and cheery Mr Johnson.. and of course St Theresa, who is getting more like the blessed Saint Margaret everyday and will surely save Britain from the Argi..err EU.. or something.. I mean.. she's so fully in control of taking back control..
Makes you proud to be a Brit!!
 
So there's nothing 'too far to the left' then. Labour's economic cock-ups-really???? Nukes; you'd like to see a leader willing to end the world-jesus h.
As I said, I'm centrist, and fairly non-political. Aside from my family & friends my life is mostly taken up with running two farms, a commercial photography business and playing bass guitar in three bands. I have very little time to study politics and you of course will probably see my views and right wing bollocks, and I have no problem with that. It was just my two cents worth as a 'man in the street', just the sort of person who matters when it comes to a general election. x
 
Not trusted. You are aware the Labour is the largest political party in Europe? I posted before that too many pfm era seem happy to describe policies to the right of the Wilson Gov in the 60's as 'hard left'-this is ridiculous and symptomatic of the endless barrage from the right wing media desperate to prevent very reasonable/equitable social/economic policies being implemented...
I wonder how strong that support is today now that many youngsters are starting to learn first hand what their grumpy older peers knew from past experiences with the hard left. Even though the current policies are not those of the hard left those in control are of the hard left. It is to do with trust rather than currently stated policies and, with the odd exception, the hard left is not behaving in a manner that seeks to build trust now they have successfully grabbed most of the controls. This is reflected in the polls where large numbers of people that ought to be labour supporters (like me) simply will not support a party run by untrustworthy people even though they agree with a large proportion of the currently stated policies.
 
As I said, I'm centrist, and fairly non-political. Aside from my family & friends my life is mostly taken up with running two farms, a commercial photography business and playing bass guitar in three bands. I have very little time to study politics and you of course will probably see my views and right wing bollocks, and I have no problem with that. It was just my two cents worth as a 'man in the street', just the sort of person who matters when it comes to a general election. x

It strikes me that something is seriously wrong with us as a society, or indeed species, if a large proportion of us consider it a mandatory qualification for leadership to be ready and willing to commit world ending murder.

Yet I don’t doubt you’re right that plenty of men in plenty of streets do.
 
I haven't seen any quote from Corbyn himself stating their status as MPs is invalid. Have you?

He's right that they were elected on the Labour manifesto - Joan Ryan, specifically, enjoyed a much higher majority on the Corbyn 'ticket' than before..
 
I think it's more a question of perception. If Tom Watson, is, to paraphrase, struggling to recognise his own party, then what hope is there for the non-political centrists like myself? I am old enough to have lived through the economic cock-ups of previous Labour government's. I also have major issues with Corbyn and anti-semitism. This is borne out by some of his defectors within his party. My Jewish friends in the UK have noticed a considerable rise in anti-semitism in recent years. Corbyn is also perceived as a rather wooly thinker and so indecisive and non-committal as to be a liability if he ever got to no 10. When asked straight forward questions about condemning anti-semitism and the IRA , his response has always been on the lines of " I of course conden all forms or racism/ terrorism etc etc". He has made it fairly clear that he would never use our nuclear deterrent. His handling of Brexit has been fairly atrocious. The Conservatives have never been in more of a mess and yet Corbyn and his close alias seem incapable of making any ground against them. Does all this add up to a swing to the left? Maybe, maybe not, but it adds up to an ineffective opposition to the Conservatives, IMHO.

This is what real anti-semitism is Bob, it's not, to put it crudely, about an argument within the Labour party over support or ortherwise for the Israeli State and its behaviour towards the Palestians.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...m-protest-marches-to-take-place-across-france
 


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