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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+16)?

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Frankiesays said:
About 25 years ago, my Economics A'level taught me that the Japenese placed car plants in the UK to have preferential access to the European market. They said that the uncertainty created by Brexit was a factor, as it seems to be with other companies leaving, they need to plan. These industries may be winding down, but there is no need for our government to give them the final push!
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You’re only 37- you must have got your A level when you were 12.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
I think they will when/if a manufacturer/company says it’s because of Brexit. This is the problem in that remainers want shit to happen due to Brexit because it fits their narrative. Remainer politicians and commentators are focused on it as they are desparate to change the result.

But despite the Honda Senior Vice President saying publicly that Brexit, and the Japan/EU trade deal, are not the reason for the planned closure of this plant in Swindon, remain supporters, politicians and commentators just won’t accept it. So no matter what is said or what evidence is produced, the Brexit mindset, which ever way people see it, is fixed. I despair I really do as I can’t see when this will end.
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Just look at what the same people said last year - post 57.

He has customers and staff and no interest in inflaming the situation. I would expect him and anyone that has finally run out of patience to be neutral about any decisions, he has nothing to gain and will want government co-operation during run off.

Your accusation works both ways if you are quite anxious to believe that our Brexit status will not impact our attractiveness as an investment location, all bets are off. How do you think this shambles actually encourages companies to base here?
 
wacko said:
The car industry, supply chain and dependent job losses that we know of already will end up close to 50,000. Plus tens of thousands in finance. There will be so many thousands more in non-headline companies. I'm sure some will find zero contract work and the unemployment figures will be massaged as much as possible.
And the positives were what exactly ? There were none worth remembering.
And Yes we will be saying "Told You So" for a long time to come.
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The positives of leaving the EU? I think of Brexit largely - but not entirely - as an outcome of the culture war that has taken place in the UK for the past 30 years - people mock it, but the health 'n' safety/political correctness gone mad phenomenon gets up peoples noses. Even though much of it probably doesn't affect people in their day to day lives - just reading about it in the msm makes people feel they are being talked down to by politicians or those who obviously think they know better. Its no coincidence that the working class are often the recipients of this 'advice'. So think of Brexit as a great big '**** you' to the experts, the finger waggers. Unfortunately it seems Brexit also brings with it all these complicated economic probems! Oh well, as Eturnumviti said above, much of Europe is aflame anyway, it wouldn't surprise me to see the EU disbanded within a decade.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
I agree... but businesses will do what’s best for them regardless.

The Peugeot Ryton plant shut down in 2006 and moved to Slovakia. Slovakia had recently become a member of the EU and it was significantly cheaper to set up a factory there and pay staff than alter the existing factory in the UK. So in this example, us being in the EU didn’t help because they moved regardless losing the UK thousands of jobs in the plant and the supply chains surrounding.
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For a variety of reasons, Britain’s economic and geopolitical standing are both heading south. That will accelerate once outside the world’s largest free market and with only a handful of trade deals signed. The Faroe Islands and Chile aren’t going to cut it for us. You might argue that we are going to find our new level in the world and it will come as a disappointment to many who were sold Britannia Unchained/ Leaders in Global Free Trade.
 
Cheese said:
Is the purpose of this thread to try and highlight the causes and effects of relocation, or just to bash the Tories ?
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Both. The idiot Tories ruining our country need to be bashed , frequently and very hard.

Cause and effect of the Swindon closure may be slightly more complex than just Brexit, but denying it had any influence is monumentally naive IMHO. I am surprised at Mick's silence and hope he is well. He is a remainer and a Tory free marketeer, who is seeing his views pulled in both directions.
 
Brexit may not have been the primary driver but it will have been a significant part of the decision. So Honda's HQ is remaining, well it will for a year or two assuming we fail to retain a customs union. As for what Honda say, Honda will say whatever they think it is best to say.
 
You clearly have little idea of what Europe aflame actually looks like otherwise you might not be so glib about it
 
HairyHaggis said:
You clearly have little idea of what Europe aflame actually looks like otherwise you might not be so glib about it
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The pfm member impersonating Frankie is getting to some of his core stuff which he’s avoided lately because it gives the game away. I’m expecting educational YouTube content from his usual sources any day now
 
SteveS1 said:
Just look at what the same people said last year - post 57.

He has customers and staff and no interest in inflaming the situation. I would expect him and anyone that has finally run out of patience to be neutral about any decisions, he has nothing to gain and will want government co-operation during run off.

Your accusation works both ways if you are quite anxious to believe that our Brexit status will not impact our attractiveness as an investment location, all bets are off. How do you think this shambles actually encourages companies to base here?
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It depends on the Brexit we get. If we have a free trade deal with the EU and our currency remains down valued, the UK could be attractive to manufacturing companies. But then other things become an issue like cost of imports.

My point is that remainers like to use any example, even when the Honda boss publicly says it’s not related, to blame Brexit. Circumstances in the car industry are changing and a combination of these will impact us as a manufacturing country. It’s been stated repeatedly that car/engine demand has changed. Diesel emissions being a significant factor whereby governments are responding by changing legislation. The fact that most of the car makers here are from Japan who used the UK as a means to access the EU market but the trade deal has effectively nullified that. So even if the UK hadn’t voted for Brexit, these 2 factors alone would in all likelihood have resulted in the same business decision taken by Honda and this is demonstrated in Honda’s decision to also close the factory in Turkey.

I’ll also repeat that we lost the Peugeot factory despite being in the EU as it moved to Slovakia where set up costs and wages are lower.
 
KC Cantiaci said:
It depends on the Brexit we get.

My point is that remainers like to use any example, even when the Honda boss publicly says it’s not related, to blame Brexit. Circumstances in the car industry are changing and a combination of these will impact us as a manufacturing country. It’s been stated repeatedly that car/engine demand has changed. Diesel emissions being a significant factor whereby governments are responding by changing legislation. The fact that most of the car makers here are from Japan who used the UK as a means to access the EU market but the trade deal has effectively nullified that. So even if the UK hadn’t voted for Brexit, these 2 factors alone would in all likelihood have resulted in the same business decision taken by Honda and this is demonstrated in Honda’s decision to also close the factory in Turkey.

I’ll also repeat that we lost the Peugeot factory despite being in the EU as it moved to Slovakia where set up costs and wages are lower.
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Yes there are several factors, but either some certainty regarding Brexit was a critical factor in their plans as furiously lobbied by several manufacturers and the Japanese goverment for the last two years, with increasing stridency - or it suddenly isn't a factor.

It has to be one or the other.

I have been involved in managing publicity around closures and regardless of what goes into your decision, once it's made the switch PR wise is to immediately minimise any fall out, as you will invariably want or need the co-operation of people and authorities involved. The comments, now they have decided what they are doing have to be seen in that context.

Meanwhile, the continuing UK political mess will not be enouraging anyone.
 
Just an added nugget of information for those who think Brexit played no part in the decision: Since the referendum, my brother who works at Honda in Swindon together with everyone in his department was asked individually by management whether they would theoretically be prepared to relocate to the EU.

So relocation to the EU was for certain one of the options after Brexit. The have since decided on another option, but they would have moved anyway, IMO (and in my brother's opinion).
 
wacko said:
The £ is also 25% below a no Brexit level
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Wrong. If the Brexit camp used such figures the remainers would be jumping up and down shouting liar,liar, stupid racist.

https://fullfact.org/economy/pound-fallen-since-brexit/

2 years before the referendum the International Monetary Fund stated that sterling was 5/15 % overvalued. The referendum was the catalyst for the inevitable.


Good news is that now sterling is considered a good investment with a possible 10% rise, though with all exchange rates there are two sides to the story.

The Euro to Struggle
On the other side of the GBP/EUR coin is of course the Euro, and NatWest Markets say the outlook is a challenging one for the single currency.
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But,

Brexit £ - dropped 25%.

Churchill - villain

If only real life were so simple.
 
MikeMA said:
I wouldn't mind betting Brexit was a sigiicant factor though, whatever Honda may say in public. Honda strategic managers would be guilty of a serious dereliction of duty to their shareholders if they hadn't considered its long term negative impact on company operations.
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I met an ex Honda management guy this morning who claimed Brexit was a more than significant factor.
 
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