advertisement


Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Following on from Andy’s post it does concern me that as I rely ever more on software to get the best sound for my ears, I am more at the mercy of the software writer. As we all know bugs are a fact of life with software and it’s implementation.

Sometimes I yearn for the mechanical simplicity of a turntable with straightforward amp and passive speakers! Such a shame that the modern digitally interventionist ways sound (when working as wanted) so much better to my ears.
 
AndyU, I have dealt with many hifi dealers over rather too many years and they have varied enormously. When it comes to setting up speakers like the Dutch and Dutch particular care needs to be taken in your choice of dealer. In this respect Lee of Strictly Stereo is top drawer; listens to what you want to achieve, knows the equipment intimately, and is not simply after a sale. Other dealers may be just as good but I can only comment on my experience and compare with others I have used in the past.

I liked them in the demo with Lee. Hence the home demo next. Lee was very helpful when we visited him. I’ll decide in the comfort of my place, and discuss set up options as well. I did hear the analogue and digital inputting via xlr, as did my wife. No discernible difference.
 
What is stretching about pointing out that a guy is having to screw 5’ x 10’ panels of 1” mdf to his walls? He is doing this on the advice of the guy that designed the speakers.

It is "stretching" because the statement you originally made does not accurately represent the discussion on Gearslutz, which you used as a reference. For the sake of clarity, there was a bug in an earlier version of the firmware which would sometimes cause the boundary settings to be set incorrectly after cycling the power to the speakers. This could lead to the wrong gain and delay settings being applied, which would in turn lead to reduced bass output and phase / time alignment issues. This was resolved very quickly via an automatic update. The stuff about MDF panels is unrelated. That comes from a Gearslutz member having an idea and asking if anyone else had already tried it. As it turns out another member had tried it and was pleased with the results. That other member had previously sought advice from Martijn on whether to panel the entire wall or just the bit immediately behind each speaker. One important detail that you have overlooked, is that all of these posters liked the 8c enough to order a pair.

The D&Ds exploit reflections from the wall behind them. It is quite reasonable to ask what limitations a plasterboard wall (or say glass windows) behind them will involve.

That is perfectly reasonable. If you have a question about that then I would be happy to answer it.

Interestingly, though, if you ask that question here the dealers will just wave their hands and tell you you can fix everything with DSP (unless you can’t in which case you are deaf). But if you ask the designer .. he says screw some panels to the wall!

I am pretty sure that I have never told you that. If you get that impression from me then I apologise. I am quite certain that MDF panels are not a requirement. Right now there is a small advantage to having similar materials and front wall boundary settings for each speaker. There are some enhancements coming in a future update which will erode this advantage and perhaps eliminate it altogether.
 
Lack of bass is generally, lack of bass. Funny how objectivists instantly claim its your perceptions which need to change but when it comes to listening it's absolutely subjective, which makes any claim of perceived experiences moot.
Nonsense. Of of the results of hearing speakers like these for an extended period is that you realize that some of what you thought was the way music was "supposed" to sound was actually just you being used to "fuzz" or "fill in" created by room interactions. Extra fake bass being created by room interactions is mostly eliminated. That's not "lack of bass" it's better more accurate bass. It's not very difficult to measure the output of speakers and you can also see objectively whether their is a lack of bass. These speakers (and the Kiis) don't have a lack of bass.
 
Hi Andy – I’m not trying to persuade myself as this would be madness – I haven’t parted with any money at this stage – this is still a home demo.

One of the first tracks I tried was Laurie Anderson – Gravity’s Angel from the album Mr. Heartbreak (yes I know not everyone’s cup of tea). I mentioned to Martijn that this tracks sub-sonic bass always excited the room, which didn’t happen with the 8c’s and hence a sense of perceived lack of bass.

Just to reiterate I am not going to part with €10K + unless I am convinced that this is what I am looking for.

As for setting them up I let Martijn do this and I would expect any competent dealer to do this also.

Your phrase that the speaker got rid of the "singing of the room" is a very good way to put it.
 
Sorry but you are making assumptions to what peoples experiences are and what they have. Thinking you have superior sounding system because its full of tricks and clicks shows noting but ignorance.

As you and a few have mentioned; D&D's and Kii's are fully adjustable (and actually need adjusting to sound right), which in base-level principles is nothing but a glorified digital/app controlled graphic equaliser.
 
As you and a few have mentioned; D&D's and Kii's are fully adjustable (and actually need adjusting to sound right), which in base-level principles is nothing but a glorified digital/app controlled graphic equaliser.

Quite. And as I’ve posted previously such devices were all the rage back in the day. I was brought up on a hifi based on a huge graphic eq fed by a revox into Tannoy speakers.

There is no harm in achieving a sound that you like, with whatever kit and direction you choose, is there? Room correction, bass traps et al are all ways of doing this. The right way is down you opinion, interpretation and choice. There is more than on way to go.
 
The 'other ways to go' are well established and don't come in for the hostility and Ludditism on display here against the technological solutions offered by Kii's or D&D from a few (apparently bitter and disgruntled) posters(dealers?).
 
Last edited:
If only they could couple the leds on the rear with the front wall they could be bounced back and enjoyed from my listening position.
 
I see there is a very long thread concerning the Kii Three speakers but can find very little, apart from in the dealer section, about the Dutch & Dutch speakers.

A few weeks back I spoke to Martijn Mensink from Dutch & Dutch who offered to deliver and set up a pair for a home demonstration which is fantastic service. I live in Rotterdam where D&D are based.

Has anyone else taken the plunge or had a home demo of these speakers? Of course with a home demo I will make up my own mind but it would be good to hear others experiences with the D&D’s.

Also I cannot get a home demo for the KII Three so it would be great to hear if anyone had the chance to hear these side by side.

Thanks - Paul

I had an amazing afternoon first looking around the D&D office and assembly facilities in Rotterdam with Martijn Mensink then a couple of hours listening over the road at the wonderful Multifoon hifi aladins cave. Loved the whole experience and for someone like me the speakers really got me excited. My story is years of experimenting and having fun with my best buddy and audio-lover Unkle Seiko - with classic kit like mission 705 rel sub, B&W 805 matrix, esl 57/quad II, krell, MF MA50, MF A370 + ATC SCM40 mk1 (awesome combo), and finally ATC Active SCM50A fed by ROON and a hugo mk1 Dac/Google CCA depending on my mood. It took a lot of time and fun to get to the unburstable ATC’s which are amazing for 99.9% of the people 99% of the time...but these D&D are just nailing me to the wall and getting me reaching for my manmath calculator. For me, They sit alongside all my previous and current classics, are cool looking, flick my physics/Maths/electronics switches, and provide a whole new gestalt dsp active digital room alignment audio playground for me and my friends. Like the Tesla or the McLaren P1, they are a whole new thing and challenging to compare to amazing traditional kit like ATC’s. If your philosophy is more music less tweaking (noble hobby as it is my froends) digital, roon, active, darko point of view on Kii Three/Kef Ls50 wireless, mfsl/DCC/best mastering vs bit rate hitez distractions...then you’ll be as happy as i was today. Whole new thing Baby.
 
Sorry but you are making assumptions to what peoples experiences are and what they have. Thinking you have superior sounding system because its full of tricks and clicks shows noting but ignorance.

As you and a few have mentioned; D&D's and Kii's are fully adjustable (and actually need adjusting to sound right), which in base-level principles is nothing but a glorified digital/app controlled graphic equaliser.

How about a bake off?
 
Sorry but you are making assumptions to what peoples experiences are and what they have. Thinking you have superior sounding system because its full of tricks and clicks shows noting but ignorance.

As you and a few have mentioned; D&D's and Kii's are fully adjustable (and actually need adjusting to sound right), which in base-level principles is nothing but a glorified digital/app controlled graphic equaliser.
Well put cereal Killer, I've not heard the 8cs and they may well be the quantum leap we have all been waiting for but every DSP or room correction I've heard so far has left me with frustrating doubts. But then I'm not a fan of photo shop pictures, 80s graphic equalisers were addictive at the time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top