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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+9)?

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Well **** me in the mouth with a rag mans's trumpet! A politician making complete sense on Newsnight. Bugger me if it isn't our very own Rory the tory. He just made it plain and simple. As a life long and LP member I actually considered voting for the monkey.
I just watched that. Pretty much my reaction too. Rory Stewart seems quite sensible.

Given the comments coming from the EU that the offer now on the table is pretty much final and it's simply a question of take it or leave it, where does this leave Labour, or any other Party, which wants anything other than Brexit on the terms now on offer? A hard Brexit or Remain seem the only alternatives.
 
Tweet from Davis & a response from Jessica Simor QC. She appears slightly miffed, I'm sharpening a pitchfork & practicing my hangmans' knot.

https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1063524958779920384

https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1063560905496109056
I’m getting confused. What is a backbench MP doing negotiating a UK trade deal with the United States? On whose authority? Let me guess he’s got a trip up the golden elevator booked because the Large Ring-piece at the top shares a grudge with Davis against the Prime Minister? He ****ed up Brexit, surely theyre not going to let him do the same with trade?
 
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So I've heard. I guess we'll see.

I sincerely hope so.

I just watched that. Pretty much my reaction too. Rory Stewart seems quite sensible.

Given the comments coming from the EU that the offer now on the table is pretty much final and it's simply a question of take it or leave it, where does this leave Labour, or any other Party, which wants anything other than Brexit on the terms now on offer? A hard Brexit or Remain seem the only alternatives.

Yes. A hard Brexit a la ERG, or a No Brexit, as I suspect the majority of thinking people want.

No. He is very personable, very articulate and a very much more subtle 'spinner' than most Tories. But he is not 'sensible', because he still sees Brexit as the only way forward.

He very cleverly contrasted May's 'Deal' with 'No Deal'. But he didn't even consider No Brexit.

He dismissed a second referendum by invoking false definitions of Democracy... As a 'one off'. FFS!! if that were Democracy we'd be stuck with these bastards forever

Etc.. Etc...

He reminds me in many ways of J R-M. Outwardly personable good humoured and 'sensible'. But he is just as slippery and dangerous. He, like all Tories and many others, is attempting to defend the indefensible.
 
I just watched that. Pretty much my reaction too. Rory Stewart seems quite sensible.

Given the comments coming from the EU that the offer now on the table is pretty much final and it's simply a question of take it or leave it, where does this leave Labour, or any other Party, which wants anything other than Brexit on the terms now on offer? A hard Brexit or Remain seem the only alternatives.
I read somewhere today that it's the final offer (give or take) to May's government. Given the political dynamic she is trying to manage in her own party, the EU must see it as futile to talk any more. However, if there was clear evidence of a political shift (e.g. GE or 2nd referendum) that could change. For example something close to a Norway style deal might be acceptable with Labour in charge.

I don't think anyone's picked up on it but it's interesting that John McDonnell has made a point of referring to "the single market" in recent TV interviews. Not so long ago, even mention of being in a customs union with the EU had to be delicately steered around by Labour MPs. Now, McDonnell is openly referring to a close relationship with the single market. I see this as part of a work in progress to reach the least damaging Brexit possible (or even to swerve away from Brexit completely) as the political ground shifts.
 
I’m getting confused. What is a backbench MP doing negotiating a UK trade deal with the United States? On who’s authority? Let me guess he’s got a trip up the golden elevator booked because the Large Ring-piece at the top shares a grudge with Davis against the Prime Minister? He ****ed up Brexit, surely theyre not going to let him do the same with trade?

I think it is Davis who is confused. I really really hope he is taken to task, to court, or to the gallows if he is proven to have done anything illegal. It's a given that whatever he has been doing is immoral, incompetent etc.
 
Thanks
I’m getting confused. What is a backbench MP doing negotiating a UK trade deal with the United States? On whose authority? Let me guess he’s got a trip up the golden elevator booked because the Large Ring-piece at the top shares a grudge with Davis against the Prime Minister? He ****ed up Brexit, surely theyre not going to let him do the same with trade?

He’s there with one of those ‘think tanks’ (or secretly funded lobbyists as they should be called).

I wonder who is paying for the trip?

Stephen
 
From the CC article.

Just this week, May refused to deny a Daily Mail reportthat she had prevented the intelligence services from investigating Banks in 2016 when she was still Home Secretary. Earlier this year, the prime minister’s political secretary used her office to smear a whistleblower who exposed what has now been proven to be electoral fraud by the official Vote Leave campaign.
 
Itself a perfectly sound reason for leaving the EU. Let's sort our own sh*t out, where at least we can.
The question is whether you can, and the obvious answer is that you can't.
Not only because the UK is obviously clearly showing it can't, look at the state you're in, but more because the world faces different problems that can only be solved by working together.

A simple example: the European electrical grid is being enforced as there may be a surplus of wind on the North sea, and a shortage in Spain, or the other way around.
Each country by itself is too small, compared to weather conditions, to easily conquer renewable energy by itself.

Another simple example: The USA, China, Russia.
The EU can match them, our old world small countries can not.

Another simple example: Google, Facebook, Cambridge analytica. Companies that are more influential than countries.

You need to think globally to conquer global issues.
 
But we shall be in The Anglosphere and our friend,The United States is going to help us. Together we will work to undermine Europe and all our other enemies. Our best years are ahead of us etc.
 
But we shall be in The Anglosphere and our friend,The United States is going to help us. Together we will work to undermine Europe and all our other enemies. Our best years are ahead of us etc.
Ye shall formeth The Divided States of Anglospherica, and much Orangness shall be applied and Pussies will be raided.

Sound like a great idea, bestest ever.


Edit: It would be the best joke towards the Tea Party though. Go for it! :D
 
Brexit generated fear and loathing funded by a man who makes his living out of insurance (that feeds the family) publicity helped by our Russian friends.
 
The BBC’s News at 6 managed to dig up seemingly endless numbers of Tory/Brexit/May supporting people in Blackburn, Bolton or somewhere earlier. People who actively want this shit. Scary stuff.
Dutch tv news (state tv as Wilders and Baudet call it) interviewed Leave voters at Gwaith Dur Wales that were very glad that May finally made a deal and hoped it would go through parliament in two weeks, because they feared for their jobs if it didn't pass. Reporters also went to Sunderland were Leave voters were mostly worried about losing their jobs because parliament is such a mess.
 
I sincerely hope so.

The pound has traded in the range $1.273 to $1.283 in the shenanigans of the last week. The money markets are placing the pound vs dollar at $1.38-$1.42 if there is a referendum and remain wins, and at $1.20 on a hard brexit. If there is a GE and Corbyn gets in, they are placing the £ in the $1.10 to $1.15 range.

The question is whether you can, and the obvious answer is that you can't.
All in good time. That is what our electoral system is for, imperfect, though it is. The electorate can sanction the government. The electorate has no realistic means of sanctioning the EU government.

Not only because the UK is obviously clearly showing it can't, look at the state you're in, but more because the world faces different problems that can only be solved by working together.

A simple example: the European electrical grid is being enforced as there may be a surplus of wind on the North sea, and a shortage in Spain, or the other way around.
Each country by itself is too small, compared to weather conditions, to easily conquer renewable energy by itself.

Another simple example: The USA, China, Russia.
The EU can match them, our old world small countries can not.

Another simple example: Google, Facebook, Cambridge analytica. Companies that are more influential than countries.

You need to think globally to conquer global issues.

These are all perfectly valid points, with which I don't necessarily disagree. However, to achieve these things, do the the EU member countries require a parliament, two parliamentary complexes in two different countries, at least 5 presidents, a complex and indeed almost impenetrable hierarchy of institutions, a plodding, centralised, unelected bureaucracy responsible for creating the laws throughout the bloc and a centralised court of justice to enforce them, a common currency, a centralised trade policy, a centralised regional funding policy, a common foreign policy and an army, and indeed all the trappings of an empire devoted to top-down rule-making, ever-ratcheted unification, and a communalised culture, none of it capable of being subject to the democratic wishes of the people?

Your answer may well be yes, mine will be no, albeit a nuanced no. I believe that most of the needs of Europe, even in the world in which we live, can be decided by the governments of independent sovereign democracies working together by bilateral and multilateral agreement, whilst remaining subject to, and with the consent of, the peoples of those independent nations and states.
 
The question is whether you can, and the obvious answer is that you can't.
Not only because the UK is obviously clearly showing it can't, look at the state you're in, but more because the world faces different problems that can only be solved by working together.

A simple example: the European electrical grid is being enforced as there may be a surplus of wind on the North sea, and a shortage in Spain, or the other way around.
Each country by itself is too small, compared to weather conditions, to easily conquer renewable energy by itself.

Another simple example: The USA, China, Russia.
The EU can match them, our old world small countries can not.

Another simple example: Google, Facebook, Cambridge analytica. Companies that are more influential than countries.

You need to think globally to conquer global issues.

agreed, and all pretty obvious stuff to anyone with half a neuron.

to achieve these things do the the EU member countries require a parliament, two parliamentary complexes in two different countries, at least 5 presidents, a complex and indeed almost impenetrable hierarchy of institutions, a plodding, centralised, unelected bureaucracy responsible for creating the laws throughout the bloc and a centralised court of justice to enforce them, a common currency, a centralised trade policy,a centralised regional funding policy, a common foreign policy and an army, and indeed all the trappings of an empire devoted to top-down rule-making, ever-ratcheted unification, and a communalised culture, none of it capable of being subject to the democratic wishes of the people?

without your pejoratives and hyperbole, yes they do. i have said, and do say, effectively the same about westminster, when viewed from a more northerly perspective. the fact remains however that cooperation and conjoining are the way forward. it's what the rest of the planet is doing. only our neurotic, money-and-power-hungry little englanders insist on dragging us backwards. and it's got nothing to do with the national interest or indeed thewillothepeople
 
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