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DACs with PCM63 chips??

Rug Doc

Rug Doc

pfm Member
I have realised that my favourite sounding DAC chips are Burr Brown multibits, I have been auditioning lots of very high end car hifi headunits (Mcintosh, Nakamichi, Alpine and all top of the line components) and the standout chip is the PCM63..

I would love to try a PCM63 DAC at home, I have a CD player which uses the PCM53 and a Luxman designed DAC with multiple PCM55s, but nothing with a PCM63...

Does anyone have anything they would be willing to let me buy?
 
I'm with you on the preference for multibit DAC chips, although personally I slightly prefer the sound of the Philips TDA1541 over the Burr Browns.

My experience is largely with CD players and
I heard a Rotel RCD971 in my system a few weeks ago and I thought it was really good. The 991 is supposed to be even better.

Don't forget the PCM58 which is also excellent. CDP wise the Sony X7ESD is an awesome machine or if your pockets aren't that deep the 338ESD.

Keep an eye out for the Creek DAC60.
 
Some possibilities include:

ACCUPHASE DC-91
Accuphase DP-90
Adcom GDA-600
Akai CD69
Akai CD79
APOGEE DA-1000
ARAGON D2A2
AUDIO NOTE DAC-1
AUDIO NOTE DAC-2
Audio Note DAC-3
AUDIO NOTE DAC-4
Audio Synthesis Dax Decade
AVI SC2000MC
Balanced Audio Tech. VK-D5
CARY AUDIO DESIGN CD-300
COPLAND CDA 266
Copland CDA277
Copland CDA288
COPLAND CDA 289
EAD CD-1000
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES II
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES III
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES II
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES III
KRELL KPS 20i
KRELL KPS 30i
LINN NUMERIC
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22B
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22C
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 24
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 33
Parasound D/AC1000
PARASOUND D/AC-1100 HD
Parasound D/AC1500
PARASOUND D/AC-1600 HD
PASS LABS D1
PATHOS InTransfer
PIONEER PD-73
PIONEER PD-93
Pioneer PD-8500
PROCEED PCD3
PS AUDIO SUPERLINK THREE
Rotel DCM-9PRO
Rotel RCD-99
Rotel RCD-971
ROTEL RCD-990
Rotel RCD-991
STAX DAC-TALENT
T+A CD1220R
T+A CD1240R
THETA DS PRO GENERATION III
THETA DS PRO GENERATION V
WADIA 6
Wadia 15

More here perhaps http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/


 
htsdgrvs said:
Some possibilities include:

ACCUPHASE DC-91
Accuphase DP-90
Adcom GDA-600
Akai CD69
Akai CD79
APOGEE DA-1000
ARAGON D2A2
AUDIO NOTE DAC-1
AUDIO NOTE DAC-2
Audio Note DAC-3
AUDIO NOTE DAC-4
Audio Synthesis Dax Decade
AVI SC2000MC
Balanced Audio Tech. VK-D5
CARY AUDIO DESIGN CD-300
COPLAND CDA 266
Copland CDA277
Copland CDA288
COPLAND CDA 289
EAD CD-1000
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES II
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES III
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES II
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES III
KRELL KPS 20i
KRELL KPS 30i
LINN NUMERIC
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22B
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22C
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 24
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 33
Parasound D/AC1000
PARASOUND D/AC-1100 HD
Parasound D/AC1500
PARASOUND D/AC-1600 HD
PASS LABS D1
PATHOS InTransfer
PIONEER PD-73
PIONEER PD-93
Pioneer PD-8500
PROCEED PCD3
PS AUDIO SUPERLINK THREE
Rotel DCM-9PRO
Rotel RCD-99
Rotel RCD-971
ROTEL RCD-990
Rotel RCD-991
STAX DAC-TALENT
T+A CD1220R
T+A CD1240R
THETA DS PRO GENERATION III
THETA DS PRO GENERATION V
WADIA 6
Wadia 15

More here perhaps http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/
Click to expand...
I was thinking the Linn Numerik used a pair of them, I’m listening to one right now.

Edit, I just checked, the very early units used the PCM63, quite early on, they changed over to PCM1702 on daughter boards known as the Nuki chip in linn world, it was a popular upgrade and many early units had them retrofitted (the DAC chips are socketed in a Numerik so it was straight forward)... I’ve just seen a third party 1704 “upgrade” but I don’t know much about it. Mine has the Nuki “1702” chips and sounds very good.
 
I use a Shanling CD3.1 CD player that uses two BB PCM1704 DAC chips for conversion and find it sounds very musical. I much prefer it to any ESS based DAC I have had.
Strangely it sounds better as a DAC than as a CD player with better soundstage and separation.
 
The Resonessance Myra and Mytek Brooklyn DACs are just awful, they were both absolutely raved about on pfm but left me bored very quickly and didn't sound in the slightest bit analogue to me, it was though someone had stuck the data stream up a Daleks arse.

I was surprised how much I liked the Auralic Vega considering it's an ESS chip though.
 
The Theta Gen Va (with the “A” revision) would be the one for me. A low jitter source is key with these older DACs as they do not attenuate it at lower freqencies. I use a Halide Bridge and custom media server, but really, any good self-powered async USB converter will do.
 
I should add that the Thetas are getting long in the tooth now... I have a DS Pro Progeny that is of much less complex build that I’ve been meaning to fix.
 
I had a Parasound D/AC1000 for a while. A bit bottom-heavy but clear-sounding.

In my opinion the analogue stage is as important as the DAC chip.
 
Some interesting posts here. And lots of research to do.

I’ve always wanted a Theta, might try to find one of those. Thanks guys - I’ll start reading now.
 
Also a muse model 2 sounds like a good bet.. anyone even see one? Hifishark is not coming up trumps.. :(
 
I'm also on a DAC hunt at the moment and it's a confusing area.

Does anyone know if you can use the Linn Numerik without a CD player -- just input from a squeezebox?
 
mandryka said:
I'm also on a DAC hunt at the moment and it's a confusing area.

Does anyone know if you can use the Linn Numerik without a CD player -- just input from a squeezebox?
Click to expand...
The User Manual says the following on p. 3

"The Linn NUMERIK digital to analogue converter has been developed from our professional studio recording system to make this ultimate level of technology available to the home listener. The NUMERIK is an oversampled DAC using 20-bit convertors which eliminate the low-level distortions found on most multi-bit DACs. The NUMERIK introduces innovative clock circuitry which cuts out sound degradation caused by timing jitter. The performance of any high quality CD Transport with a digital output will be enhanced when combined with the NUMERIK. Optimum performance is achieved when the NUMERIK is partnered with the KARIK CD Transport."

This certainly seems to indicate that other digital sources are just fine. Obviously the clock sync option won't be available. Folks on the now-defunct Linn forum claim to have used it with Sonos Connect.
 
Yes, you can, essentially, just stuff 44-48Khz SPDIF into a Numerik, but bear in mind it will be totally reliant on how 'good' the source is - no reclocking etc.


More generally I'd say it's worth noting that - yes the PCM 63 is a very fine ladder dac; it also was critically-reliant on correct / in-calibration adjustment of the two MSB-offset trimpots.

Trimpots, even the tiny sealed multi-turn-types, are crap parts: they drift, they move, they have lousy tempcos.

Now -20yrs later(!) - in these days of really, really good ADC (18+bit) cards for free in everything - it is not difficult to feed-in a low-level sine (-90db, dithered, 16-bit data) and re-adjust for least IMD*. In fact - since these things are 20yrs old - that's exactly what I would do as a matter of course: finding a DAC based on 'PCM63' alone is not a guarantee otherwise of anything you might like. Finesse-ing one, could well be.




(*e.g. I did such a tweak to a friend's ancient Denon based on the pcm56, a slightly-downspecced version of very same dac architecture/chip innards - and the outcome, for stuff that shouldalready be in the noise-floor - was quite a revelation in terms of enjoyment.)
 
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