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MQA fracas at RMAF 2018

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That may be the case in the USA, but in Europe we have regulations to protect customers against schemes.
But anyway, you're not disputing that MQA uses false advertising, which is a nice first step.

I just wonder if you can manage the whole stairs before being moderated to oblivion. I'm keen to follow your progress.
I understand that in Europe, the government is much more invasive into the business world, to protect the "people." This obviously creates a dependency on "authorities" to solve problems for you. The new campaign to complain to "Mommy" in order to shut down an audio codec is a good example.

My cereal claims lots of things on its box that are technically of dubious factual origin. I still enjoy the flavor. Do you go to a restaurant that says "Best Bangers in London?" Are they REALLY the best? Or are they just old re-ground Doner Kebobs? Denounce and report them to authorities!
 
Really? These kinds of claims are made routinely in every product advertising in most experiential fields of business. Food, wine, cars, audio - all of them claim that their "thing" is experientially superior. "Reveal every detail of recording" is found every day in every audio mag. There is probably a professional ad-men defense of the use of that phrase that has been litigated before.
Hi,
Artistic licence is one thing for adverts or an experience. False claims based in engineering to make money is a scam. There is a significant and legal difference.
Regards,
Shadders.
 
To summarise the thread:

Many people are saying why its a really bad idea that's full of holes, proposed by people who have had to change their tune when their claims have been exposed.

A tiny number of people have some very flimsy arguments for its existence.

Seems like the pendulum is very heavily towards against, with some sound arguments for that position.
Got to take issue with this one. I think the number of people criticising MQA is likely to be vanishingly low compared to the numbers who will happily accept it, whether through ignorance or not. I don’t visit MQA threads that often these days as I’m sick of reading the same old stuff. Most of it comes from the same small group of people as far as I can see. There doesn’t need to be an argument for it’s existence - it exists. Whether it continues to exist will most certainly not depend on what anyone on such a forum as this has to say about it. Personally, I prefer not to have self-appointed saviours trying to protect me from my own ignorance and stupidity. That’s my wife’s job.
 
Got to take issue with this one. I think the number of people criticising MQA is likely to be vanishingly low compared to the numbers who will happily accept it, whether through ignorance or not. I don’t visit MQA threads that often these days as I’m sick of reading the same old stuff. Most of it comes from the same small group of people as far as I can see. There doesn’t need to be an argument for it’s existence - it exists. Whether it continues to exist will most certainly not depend on what anyone on such a forum as this has to say about it. Personally, I prefer not to have self-appointed saviours trying to protect me from my own ignorance and stupidity. That’s my wife’s job.

Your wife needs to step up to the plate.
 
Hi,
Artistic licence is one thing for adverts or an experience. False claims based in engineering to make money is a scam. There is a significant and legal difference.
Regards,
Shadders.
Maybe...but I don't think trying to "lawyer" an audio coded out of existence will practically work in most Western countries, certainly not in the age of the internet. In Saudi, though, it might work, especially if MBS don't like it. Good Clash song kinda about that.
 
Maybe...but I don't think trying to "lawyer" an audio coded out of existence will practically work in most Western countries, certainly not in the age of the internet. In Saudi, though, it might work, especially if MBS don't like it.
Hi,
Again, all people are doing is responding to false claims made by some people on the forum.

No one, is telling anyone, do not listen to MQA.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
Or maybe smart business strategy? What will the anti-MQA crowd say if it is a software decode only, able to output to any DAC? And free to the end user...

I assume that's what it does. It has Tidal onboard anyway, so I assume this just enables Tidal Masters.

If I had one I'd just use Qobuz via DLNA and my family would beam Spotify to it.

Tidal could be driving this, forcing MQA to enable streamers so their content can be played (and paid for).

Can't see where MQA are making money from this.
 
I assume that's what it does. It has Tidal onboard anyway, so I assume this just enables Tidal Masters.

If I had one I'd just use Qobuz via DLNA and my family would beam Spotify to it.

Tidal could be driving this, forcing MQA to enable streamers so their content can be played (and paid for).

Can't see where MQA are making money from this.
I owned and sold N50 years ago now...it was alright at the time.

Many firmware based DACs/Streamers can be software updated to MQA decoding or rendering. PS Audio did this recently with their Bridge, though Paul McGowan is not an MQA fan - he compared its house sound to "tunnel vision". I would be interested in their big DAC - seems to be an excellent product, but it is VERY pricey, at least for me.

MQA lack of profit is their business.
 
Dimitry, Funny how the view from Europe of the US is a country full of people who are so stupid there's a law to prevent them from crossing the road under their own recognizance.

Strangely in Europe we get by just fine without the government dictating where we cross the road.
 
Dimitry, Funny how the view from Europe of the US is a country full of people who are so stupid there's a law to prevent them from crossing the road under their own recognizance.

Strangely in Europe we get by just fine without the government dictating where we cross the road.
And yet the primary impulse here seems to be to complain to the authorities...
 
Whos complaining, if they're perpetrating fraud we have a consumer protection agency specifically to deal with it rather than putting the onus on a single individual to take them to court.

Seems a practical solution to deal with the power of a corporation who lied about product.
 
Hi,
Again, all people are doing is responding to false claims made by some people on the forum.

No one, is telling anyone, do not listen to MQA.

Regards,
Shadders.
Actually, a more honest approach WOULD be to advocate for people to abandon MQA, based on its inferior SQ.

But this approach would not be effective on the merits, as the SQ is actually very good, within a margin of preference, as i and countless others have found out for THEMSELVES.

So the next best thing is dirty pool techo babble, or more charitably, sciency sounding conjecture, to convince audiophiles that MQA CAN'T sound good because...stuff.

Now, there even a campaign to complain to govnmt about your tender technical sensibilities being stressed from MQA ads.

Anything and everything to be mobilized in this mortal struggle against a codec! No pasaran!
 
Whos complaining, if they're perpetrating fraud we have a consumer protection agency specifically to deal with it rather than putting the onus on a single individual to take them to court.

Seems a practical solution to deal with the power of a corporation who lied about product.
You like double blind testing, right? MQA will pass them with flying colors, if they are successfully competing with LPCM on SQ, which I know they are.
 
Actually, a more honest approach WOULD be to advocate for people to abandon MQA, based on its inferior SQ.

But this approach would not be effective on the merits, as the SQ is actually very good, within a margin of preference, as i and countless others have found out for THEMSELVES.

So the next best thing is dirty pool techo babble, or more charitably, sciency sounding conjecture, to convince audiophiles that MQA CAN'T sound good because...stuff.

Now, there even a campaign to complain to govnmt about your tender technical sensibilities being stressed from MQA ads.

Anything and everything to be mobilized in this mortal struggle against a codec! No pasaran!
Hi,
Every technical argument to expose MQA false statements has been valid. It is those technical statements by MQA Ltd that have been proven to be false as per the Xivero paper, and obvious analysis of the MQA AES paper. The AES do not peer review - this is evident by the "errors" in the MQA AES paper.

The person who has complained has complained to a non governmental agency. False claims must be investigated.

All people are doing here is expressing their understanding, analysis, and criticism of MQA. It is allowed as this is a forum.

No one is blocking you making statements. No one is trying to stop others from listening or liking MQA. If you make false statements, then people will respond.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
Hi,
Every technical argument to expose MQA false statements has been valid. It is those technical statements by MQA Ltd that have been proven to be false as per the Xivero paper, and obvious analysis of the MQA AES paper. The AES do not peer review - this is evident by the "errors" in the MQA AES paper.

The person who has complained has complained to a non governmental agency. False claims must be investigated.

All people are doing here is expressing their understanding, analysis, and criticism of MQA. It is allowed as this is a forum.

No one is blocking you making statements. No one is trying to stop others from listening or liking MQA. If you make false statements, then people will respond.

Regards,
Shadders.
We had exactly the same "analysis" when people complained about harsh digital sound at the birth of CDs. We were told that we couldn't hear that because CDs were "perfect" and brickwall filters were "inaudible". Then when HDCD came out, we were told we couldn't hear the difference because "double blind" tests proved it was inaudible. We were told that what we liked about tube amplifiers is the added distortion. SACD was meaningless, because CD was already perfect.

Now you are telling me that I couldn't really objectively prefer MQA, because you see, in your half-baked opinion of a proprietary system of which you know next to nothing about ("bandwidth limited filters don't ring" - that one needs to be saved for posterity) you declared it a "scam", because it doesn't meet your august judgment of scientific fidelity.

The "analysis" of MQA on this forum is near-worthless, with obvious errors and conjecture by your side. Even the "big paper" that is cited had clear errors in it that I pointed out, which is why it is published on a website of "ambiphonics" vendor and not in IEEE.

When you say "MQA adds aliasing into source material", it is by definition conjecture, because the system is proprietary and you have no access to encoded/decoded test data and you have no design information on their splitter/joiner filter banks. When you say, their patent says "X", so it must be in the implementation, that is conjecture, since anyone who worked with a patent attorney knows that you patent everything you can and you don't implement everything.

What you are clearly trying to do is to kill a technology you don't like, purely based on your personal hatred of it. That's fine, but just be honest about it.
 
We had exactly the same "analysis" when people complained about harsh digital sound at the birth of CDs. We were told that we couldn't hear that because CDs were "perfect" and brickwall filters were "inaudible". Then when HDCD came out, we were told we couldn't hear the difference because "double blind" tests proved it was inaudible. We were told that what we liked about tube amplifiers is the added distortion. SACD was meaningless, because CD was already perfect.

Now you are telling me that I couldn't really objectively prefer MQA, because you see, in your half-baked opinion of a proprietary system of which you know next to nothing about ("bandwidth limited filters don't ring" - that one needs to be saved for posterity) you declared it a "scam", because it doesn't meet your august judgment of scientific fidelity.

The "analysis" of MQA on this forum is near-worthless, with obvious errors and conjecture by your side. Even the "big paper" that is cited had clear errors in it that I pointed out, which is why it is published on a website of "ambiphonics" vendor and not in IEEE.

When you say "MQA adds aliasing into source material", it is by definition conjecture, because the system is proprietary and you have no access to encoded/decoded test data and you have no design information on their splitter/joiner filter banks. When you say, their patent says "X", so it must be in the implementation, that is conjecture, since anyone who worked with a patent attorney knows that you patent everything you can and you don't implement everything.

What you are clearly trying to do is to kill a technology you don't like, purely based on your personal hatred of it. That's fine, but just be honest about it.
Hi,
You seem to be commenting on subjective opinion in relation to the CD, HDCD, SACD in your first paragraph. No problem there.

With your second paragraph - you have made errors in "bandwidth filters don't ring". This was never said, and your sentence makes no sense either. It was stated that bandwidth limited signals do not cause filters to ring, and do not contain ringing if constructed correctly. This is a provable fact.

The Xivero paper is very well detailed and correct analysis of MQA. It proves MQA statements are false. MQA even dropped lossless - because the community challenged the lie.

The paragraph referring to MQA adds aliasing etc., was not stated by me. So i cannot comment.

The last sentence - no one is trying to kill anything. All people are doing, is responding to "false statements made with no evidence", and presenting the facts backed up with evidence. Discussing MQA on a forum is just that, discussion. Any discussion here will have no effect on MQA, because it is just discussion. People can make their own minds up.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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