Ptah
pfm Member
That one was, yes.
Expensive gear, boring sound?
- Thread starter Elkjær
- Start date
I don't know how you square the circle....or is it circle the square....?
I have three pairs of decent headphones, & I can easily set these up so that they are all playing the same thing:
Stax Lambda Nova (very ancient), Philips Fidelio X2 & Oppo PM-3.
All well reviewed items. All sound completely different. What happened to the straight wire principle or ....hifi should reproduce the original sound as accurately as possible?
The most annoying thing is I can't really decide which I prefer. In use the Oppos are great when travelling (closed back). But away from these specific practical application, at home, the clarity of the Stax is superb...but can be a bit bright and a tad bass light. The Oppos have a nice tonal balance but just a tad 'enclosed' sounding and maybe slightly tonally light at both ends of the scale. The Philips are bass heavy but great otherwise tonally, if not quite as clear as the Stax. Aaarghh!
But as recordings change I do find I prefer the sound of one over another.
Is that because specific phones reproduce that particular type of recording better i.e. closer approach to the original sound? Or is it just personal preference? No idea.
If I had the where-with-all to set up a choice of amps, speakers & source, I'm sure I'd find the same.
I have three pairs of decent headphones, & I can easily set these up so that they are all playing the same thing:
Stax Lambda Nova (very ancient), Philips Fidelio X2 & Oppo PM-3.
All well reviewed items. All sound completely different. What happened to the straight wire principle or ....hifi should reproduce the original sound as accurately as possible?
The most annoying thing is I can't really decide which I prefer. In use the Oppos are great when travelling (closed back). But away from these specific practical application, at home, the clarity of the Stax is superb...but can be a bit bright and a tad bass light. The Oppos have a nice tonal balance but just a tad 'enclosed' sounding and maybe slightly tonally light at both ends of the scale. The Philips are bass heavy but great otherwise tonally, if not quite as clear as the Stax. Aaarghh!
But as recordings change I do find I prefer the sound of one over another.
Is that because specific phones reproduce that particular type of recording better i.e. closer approach to the original sound? Or is it just personal preference? No idea.
If I had the where-with-all to set up a choice of amps, speakers & source, I'm sure I'd find the same.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
Or ...
If your expensive hifi is not sounding exciting then you are not playing the right music for it. But that’s not a universal get out.
Different hifis take your music in different directions. Some are about space and others are about pace and different types of music and recordings will match or not match accordingly.
OTOH the last dem of thousands of pounds worth of gear I heard at a dealer sounded really awful whatever material you fed it. I don’t blame the dealer as it was the end of the day with little time to sort it properly.
As the wise man once said “money doesn’t buy you happiness” and Ken Dodd should know. He sang a song all about it.
If your expensive hifi is not sounding exciting then you are not playing the right music for it. But that’s not a universal get out.
Different hifis take your music in different directions. Some are about space and others are about pace and different types of music and recordings will match or not match accordingly.
OTOH the last dem of thousands of pounds worth of gear I heard at a dealer sounded really awful whatever material you fed it. I don’t blame the dealer as it was the end of the day with little time to sort it properly.
As the wise man once said “money doesn’t buy you happiness” and Ken Dodd should know. He sang a song all about it.
Interesting points made. I guess i might just be impressed just how far you can go for 1000-2000£ per unit system. I use to be a hifi dealer and therefore tried a lot in different pricerange. Synergy yes. I also agree that you might not have the same high expectations in the lower pricerange and then you be surpiced.
AndrewM
pfm Member
I am more and more doubtful as to whether the concept of “accurate reproduction of the original sound” actually means anything useful. We are trying to reproduce a sound that is recorded or created in a venue that is wholly unlike the domestic environment we want to hear it in, by sound engineers who may have a quite different take than us on what it should sound like, using a huge range of equipment using different design philosophies and and hugely varying price points. I think the best we can aim for is the sound that most accurately represents what we think the original should sound like. And accept that won’t be the same for everybody.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Usually I listen to music first with free Spotify or YouTube via telly, SQ doesn't come into it for choosing music. My main system is there for me to enjoy my music with a sound quality that isn't disturbing or distracting. Which I've found not that easy - hi-fi can fall into an "uncanny valley" - but that's my goal really.
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Agreed!
Helen Bach
if it ain't Baroque ...
Over the last few months I've been listening to a 'speaker I'm developing using the mid range units and boxes (closed) of a couple of pairs of JPW Sonatas, fed with two inexpensive stereo class D amplifiers (I was going to use for some experiments). The amplifiers and speakers replaced £1800 worth of other gear, and although the Sonatas and class D's were less than £100, I have had no urge to go back to the expensive (for me) other system.
As others have opined, cheap gear can (and for me, definitely does) really hit the spot, and I listen mostly to classical music!
As others have opined, cheap gear can (and for me, definitely does) really hit the spot, and I listen mostly to classical music!
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
How much do you have to spend before you have a right to expect sound better than the musicians playing live in front of you?
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
The live vs recorded argument is a silly one. Unless you have unrestricted access to miles davis, Nina Simone,
Been there, done that. In my case it was Stax vs. Sennheisers. The difference is certainly there. The sound of each 'phone is easy to characterize. But which one is better? Yet they sound so different that at least one of them must be 'wrong'.
I purchased my latest pair of loudspeakers (smallish Genelecs) mostly because of the favorable reviews and their general good reputation. I have been quite happy with them. Placebo works wonders.
Of course I could have taken several pairs of different monitors home and spent a few agonizing days comparing them. But would I have been any wiser? I do not really think so. Are there better loudspeakers at same price? Probably - then again maybe not. But there is no reliable and practical way for me to find out.
Then I see a "review" of 10 power cords, in which the author describes carefully the sound of each and declares the winner...
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
£250 is the combined price of my amp and speakers on ebay. This is my present day setup and is superb for listeniing to all styles. Jazz, Rock, Classical, Folk.
It’s when i look at my source the difference in outlay is more crucial to the listening experience.
A good amp and speakers like my Yamaha and Rogers monitors will reveal the capabilities of the front end, which is why my source components seem to have cost quite a bit more.
It’s when i look at my source the difference in outlay is more crucial to the listening experience.
A good amp and speakers like my Yamaha and Rogers monitors will reveal the capabilities of the front end, which is why my source components seem to have cost quite a bit more.
Norman Green
pfm Member
If Hacker had continued to make their splendid valve ‘Gondolier’ record player with the add-on stereo speaker in the 70’s I doubt that l would have ever have ventured into the world of hifi. Wonderful sound, easy listening. But then a multitude of other factors crept in:
turntable speed went slower and slower,
records sometimes came down six at a time on the platter,
a colleague talked about things called ‘separates’,
I started to listen to hifi aspects rather than the music I had been enjoying....
Still, now it's full circle with Shahinian Arc 2 – good, easy, balanced sound. It’s only boring if the music is boring. Music I don’t listen to anymore is travelling to the charity shop. It's always a diminishing collection- for every 'new' disc in, probably 3 go out.
turntable speed went slower and slower,
records sometimes came down six at a time on the platter,
a colleague talked about things called ‘separates’,
I started to listen to hifi aspects rather than the music I had been enjoying....
Still, now it's full circle with Shahinian Arc 2 – good, easy, balanced sound. It’s only boring if the music is boring. Music I don’t listen to anymore is travelling to the charity shop. It's always a diminishing collection- for every 'new' disc in, probably 3 go out.
John Phillips
pfm Member
I was trying to remember an example of this from my listening (my take only).
I can only think of one, and actually the measurements were not good. Ella Fitzgerald on an acquaintance's home-built 2A3 SET amplifier. Unfortunately he was using some very insensitive vintage B&W loudspeakers. He loved what he heard (of which I have no doubt) but I was so distracted from the performance by the grating sound of the poor little amplifier clipping (albeit softly) that I couldn't enjoy the music. From a digital capture of the sound in the room I confirmed (in Audacity) that the amplifier was indeed rounding off the audio peaks when the music got louder.
Measurements are good because they reveal whether or not the designer has paid attention to approaching close enough to the current state of the art. I don't think achieving that correlates well with equipment being expensive. Measurements in HFN and Stereophile confirm this.
However, I am convinced that it's only some technical defects in audio equipment that take the fun out of music. For me the music survives perfectly well through others.
I think I now know what matters to me and making sure my equipment avoids doing the wrong things is what matters - not selecting kit on price. When upgrading it's a matter of clarity: not being in too much of a hurry and identifying the small number of specific matters to improve. Otherwise upgrading becomes random.
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
Damn Doggy... You rockin' dem crocs!Really.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
This is very true. But as in the thread title, expensive system can make (extremely) boring sound and cheap system can be very enjoyable from the musical point of view.
One example of a miserable system is where each component from expensive source to expensive amp and expensive speakers is designed to alleviate that “harsh digital sound”.
You end up listening to expensive bloated mush - can’t enjoy music like that!