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Vaping on buses and trains

I have never seen anyone with any sense of style or panache vaping,. If vapers were a bit more cyberpunk about it I might give them a free pass but most of the time it’s done by some dweeby looking person in sports clothing sucking battery fumes from an iPod nano.
I agree. I hope the trend may yet turn into a fad, and dwindle eventually. I notice that the majority of vaping shops are in locations similar to the sort of places we used to find video rental shops or tanning salons, and similar bandwagon jumping businesses.

If vaping turns into something people use to give up the fags, but it’s use as a recreation in itself declines, I’d be pleased and not entirely surprised.
 
I have never seen anyone with any sense of style or panache vaping,. If vapers were a bit more cyberpunk about it I might give them a free pass but most of the time it’s done by some dweeby looking person in sports clothing sucking battery fumes from an iPod nano.

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http://www.de-verdamper.nl/uk
 
And of course tobacco companies are aiming these things at kids. The bright colours of the product and the tech is designed to hook the next generation of addicts.

Stephen

Are you on about Alcohol advertising........alas no. Because of course consumption of Alcohol is socially acceptable and vaping is not...to some.
 
Are you on about Alcohol advertising........alas no. Because of course consumption of Alcohol is socially acceptable and vaping is not...to some.

I'm not sure why you are continually referring to alcohol when the subject here is vaping—it's a lovely example of 'whataboutery'.

Start another thread about alcohol, by all means.

Stephen
 
I'm not sure why you are continually referring to alcohol when the subject here is vaping.

Start another thread about alcohol, by all means.

Stephen

Simply because of freedom of choice. Many are claiming that vaping is a disgusting habit while quite happily consuming alcohol, so maybe a bit hypocritical do you think.
 
When will you get it into your head that me swallowing a single pint of ale has no effect on anyone around me.
People vaping fill everyone nearby’s air with a foul smelling fug.
 
Simply because of freedom of choice. Many are claiming that vaping is a disgusting habit while quite happily consuming alcohol, so maybe a bit hypocritical do you think.
I don't make anyone around me drink or otherwise share the alcohol I consume.
If, when I'd finished with a pint of ale, I pissed the waste down your leg, you'd have a point. But I don't, so you don't.
 
I like Jeremy Hardy's quote about vaping machines now being so big that when he saw someone using one recently, he thought it was a french horn.
 
When we talk about not comparing effects of alcohol to vaping, could that be considered a short sighted view?

Both could indirectly have a long term detrimental health effect on the individual, and indirectly their family, health service provision etc etc.

Just saying...

“If I want to drink/smoke/vape myself to oblivion, that’s my choice. My wife/family/next of kin will be just fine with it”.

Ps - 3 members of my family died of smoking related cancer. One of em drank as well... died from a combo of both aged 38.
 
“If I want to drink/smoke/vape myself to oblivion, that’s my choice. My wife/family/next of kin will be just fine with it”.

But, as has been repeated ,ad nauseum, drinking has no environmental effect on those around the drinker, ie if I drink a pint in your company, it has no environmental effect on you whatsoever.

If I smoke a fag or an e-cig in your company, you have to breath in the smoke/vape, whether you want to or not.

What is so bloody hard to understand about that?
 
But, as has been repeated ,ad nauseum, drinking has no environmental effect on those around the drinker, ie if I drink a pint in your company, it has no environmental effect on you whatsoever.

If I smoke a fag or an e-cig in your company, you have to breath in the smoke/vape, whether you want to or not.

What is so bloody hard to understand about that?

So you don't smoke in their company, easy.
 
But, as has been repeated ,ad nauseum, drinking has no environmental effect on those around the drinker, ie if I drink a pint in your company, it has no environmental effect on you whatsoever.

I totally get the point. No need to repeat it to me. However all the point is concerned with is the ‘there and then’. I repeat my point that vaping, smoking and consuming alcohol isn’t just about the ‘there and then’.

I’m interested in the perceived and actual risks an individual takes regarding their own health, and their perceived attitude of ‘don’t worry about is as you won’t have to pick up the short or long term emotional or financial pieces from my choices’.

It’s not just about the immediate implications and consequences of vaping, smoking, drinking or indeed any other risky behaviour undertaken at that time.
 
OK, since Sarge isn't getting it, I'll have a stab at it.

People have a right to do what they like, within the law. Human Rights Act says so (something Tories and Brexitiers are keen to repeal, btw, ask yourself why).

This right to do what they like, includes the taking of personal risk. So, I can go free climbing, pot holing, ski off piste, cycle down mountains, whatever. As a rule, though, I'm not allowed to put others at risk. So BASE jumping is still illegal, because if my chute doesn't save me, I might land on somebody else. For example.

So, people are free to smoke, if they insist. But what they are not free to do is put others at risk. So they can only smoke in places where others, eg non-smokers, won't be more than minimally affected.

There are also anti-discrimination laws, and general principles, so by and large you can't allow one person to do something and prevent another, and safety at work legislation, which you can't override by getting somebody to sign away their rights.

So, a smokers-only pub is a no-no, because it puts staff at risk, even if they are already smokers. What if they were to quit smoking, would they lose their job? That'd be discrimination, see above. And if they got cancer, or another smoking related disease, their employer might find it hard to argue that their working environment wasn't a contributory factor. Also, let's say the smoking pub has better beer, and a better vibe than the non smoking pub; I, as a non smoker might like to use it, but would be discriminated against if I wasn't allowed, and would be put at risk if I did use it. See above. So a smokers only pub is an unlawful and dumb idea.

The same isn't true for alcohol because I'm allowed to take personal risk, see above. What I'm not allowed to do is put others at risk by my action, see above. The collateral risks from alcohol are all secondary effects, eg violence and disorder. They can be dealt with under the law using other means, eg public order offences. You don't have to ban alcohol to deal with it.

What Sarge is complaining about is an apparent hypocrisy in banning one, but not the other. They are not equivalent, so it's not hypocrisy.

Vaping is new, and the law hasn't yet caught up. Under the principle of 'evidence based law making' I think governments would have to be satisfied that vaping didn't present a health risk, and I think evidence on that is still decades away, because it's too new.
 
at Sarge is complaining about is an apparent hypocrisy in banning one, but not the other. They are not equivalent, so it's not hypocrisy.

Both killers (in the case of vaping, unproven), both can have devastating effects on innocent people around them and their family's ( you can vape to your heats content, get in a car and drive without killing someone) so you tell me how they are not equivalent.

So yes I get it, do you?
 


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