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FM aerial / Cheshire

Tantris

Tantris

pfm Member
After a lot of messing about today, with different tuners and aerials and signal strength meters, I think I need to have a dedicated FM aerial installed (rather than relying on the combined Freesat / Freeview / FM aerial which serves the five houses where I live).

Google produces results for franchise owners who want to install either a Freeview aerial or a satellite dish. Can PFM'rs recommend someone who is knowledgeable in FM aerial installation, who can get it pointed at the right transmitter (Holme Moss for me, I think), and who covers south Cheshire?
 
Ron Smith,
His aerials are allegedly the bee's knee's, had one myself years ago and it certainly pulled in the signals like no other.I'm not sure if they are still there, but there used to be three of them on top of the roof at a certain well known Salisbury Amp and Tuner manufacture.
Ron Smith Aerials will either travel to fit for you or when I used them they had a list of "local" of people that they would use to supply and erect.
oldie
 
Personally, I'd choose a simple standard FM antenna of the kind the BBC recommended when they regarded FM as king. My own view and that of some antenna riggers I've known in the past is that the highly fancified and more expensive types are largely money for bling and don't get much more signal.

Find a local rigger and ask if they will fit a basic 3 or 4 element Yagi. If they suggest a 'halo', walk away...

Look for someone who can install something similar to

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/VHF/VHFantenna.html

and knows how to point it in the right direction.
 
Thanks, oldie & Jim. I hadn't realised that Ron Smith aerials were still available - I'm quite prepared to get a Ron Smith aerial if it is indeed worth it - what do people think?
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
Find a local rigger and ask if they will fit a basic 3 or 4 element Yagi. If they suggest a 'halo', walk away...
Click to expand...

What's the advantage of a yagi over a simple FM 4/6/7/8 element aerial? Apart from my Ron Smith Galaxie 23, I've always had an Antiference or J Beam or other antennae; current one is a simple 6 element on 12' mast on chimney for a 9 mile crow's flight to Tacolneston, Norfolk. My 8 element was happy for Folkestone from the wrong side of Canterbury in the very early seventies; maybe 22 to 25 miles.

You need to know Holme Moss's output, but I'm pretty sure it's high. Work out your crow's distance and any intervening geological barriers. Work out the best (most structurally rugged and highest) chimney you have; use a thick-wall ally or steel 12' mast, three lashings and a local rigger who has a track record.

Ron Smith's stuff is great, but the complete installation package will cost an arm and a leg from Luton (assuming they're still there). A G14 might suffice but a G17 would almost certainly do the trick if you're 20 to 25/30 miles away depending on topography. Beyond that and you'd probably need to build a separate chimney !:)
 
I wonder what tuner you are using. If one of the well-known British types with very little sensitivity and a less than stellar front end, you’ll likely need a Ron Smith type with lots of elements plus good buildings insurance. In my experience, good Japanese and US tuners need much less and the basic three or four element recommended above will be more than fine. My Marantz 2130, for example, much prefers a simple FM Omni to anything else I’ve tried it on and I’m not the only one to have made this sort of observation. Start simple and work up if it proves necessary.
 
Beware of a Ron Smith if you live in a windy area. It took me about a year to find someone within 50 miles who would install my Galaxie three floors up. I live on the coast and it is windy and I would see the aerial vibrate. After about 18 months of this the steel pole collapsed due to metal fatigue and I gave the aerial away to a pfm guy who is now Clair. Knowing what happened to me the aerial was put up with two steel poles however I understand that after a while it also collapsed and damaged the roof.

I simple Yagi is enough for FM radio but if there are tall buildings or you are a long way from the xmitter you may need more directors to narrow the beam width and increase the gain. You can even have multiple Yagis if you need more gain.

Cheers,

DV
 
Thanks for all the input. The main tuner is a Naim NAT01; on Radio 3, I get a decent sound, but the stereo light will not light, and recordings reveal unacceptable hum and hiss. The alternative is a Sony ST-SB920 - this does show stereo separation on Radio 3, but only about half of maximum signal strength.The current aerial is a very simple FM aerial combined with a Freeview TV aerial, which serves five properties - hence my thinking that it might be better to get a dedicated FM aerial.

@FC united - I'm interested - could you PM more details?
 
Okay, down the wormhole: try putting your location in here, and seeing what you might expect:

https://fmscan.org/index.php

Select 'FM', enter your location (try your town, postcode or lat/long if known); see a long table of results and hit the 'db' column to sort (hit twice if necessary to get the bright-green highlight uppermost)

This thing models where you are inc. obstructions really rather well, and assumes a very basic aerial install. You don't need a massive aerial, if a simple FM aerial pointed in the right direction gets positive signal strength results.

You should be able to pull in the top 'green ' results with wet string (unles you are tucked-in close behind a hill in line-of-sight to the transmitter), and the mid-green ones with anything above that. The Azimuth read-out is degrees clockwise from North for aerial aim - if all you have a a freebie dipole wire pair, try it at right angles to that direction first.

Have fun!
 
Martin - that's a really helpful link, thank you - this is what I get;

At the moment, I'm getting 42db, so I should, in theory, be able to significantly improve that to 70db with a decent aerial, if I'm reading this correctly.
 
You are going to need a very good aerial* to get that much gain... 10-12dB is more realistic for most: you get gain at the expense of directivity, in essence - not a problem if you know what you wish to achieve, as you clearly do: and there are others here who know & can advise on RF matters far better than I* !

*5-7element Yagi would be about right. There has been previous fairly-recent discussion on similar inc Ron Smith by members like davidsrsb.
 
Magnum Dynalab ST-2 Omnidirectional FM Antenna

I installed one and I love it...(omnidirectional and also made by an elite FM Tuner company)

http://www.magnumdynalab.com/st-2-omnidirectional-fm-antenna/

http://www.audioreview.com/product/other/tuners/magnum-dynalab/st-2.html

https://www.musicdirect.com/antennas/magnum-dynalab-st-2-fm-antenna


http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/magnum-dynalab-st-2-how-does-it-work.725614/

AMAGST2.jpg

Bring Out the Best in Your FM Tuner
The finest FM tuner in the world won't perform much better than a mediocre component if you don't have it connected to a quality antenna. Don't starve your tuner for signals. Feed it the RF nourishment it needs with the Magnum Dynalab ST-2. It brings out the best in any quality tuner or receiver.

"Even indoors, it worked very well," reports Paul Schumann in SoundStage! magazine online.

This powerful single element dipole FM antenna is the best affordably priced indoor/outdoor antenna we've tested! The 54" long Magnum Dynalab ST-2 is omnidirectional. It improves reception in both urban and rural areas and works when placed vertically or horizontally. The 1/2 wave length ST-2 is weather-sealed and offers 2.5 dB of signal gain. Comes with "L" mounting bracket and 24 ft of cable

Do I need to mount this antenna on my roof, or will it work as well indoors?

The ST-2 antenna combines excellent bandwidth and a slight amount of gain to ensure that whether your setting is rural or urban, there will be a marked improvement in performance when it is used. In urban settings, this antenna will do fine indoors or outside, however, if you are living in a rural area, or below sea level with large hills or mountains surrounding you will notice improved performance if you mount the antenna outdoors or at the highest point on the building where it will be used.
 
Omnis are good in strong signal locations, but they are the very simplest form of aerial - my putative 'wet string' basic suggestion - and won't do what Tantris wants, by a large factor (15dB or more)
 
I also have an 01, and (I'm sure you know) it's an insensitive tuner. Even the old valved Leak Trough Line I've borrowed seems more sensitive. My eighties Technics works well in the office in a piece of string (well, a rod with a bit of coax attached).

From my Ron Smith guide, the G17 has a 15.9 dB gain with the G14 1.2 dB less. My opinion, after 19 years with the 01 and 10 years before that with a 101, you really cannot have too much gain for the Naim tuner. Admittedly, my G23 on rotator above Ramsgate was with my 101 but I don't think there's much difference in sensitivity.

If you're going to spend money, get the best that you can accommodate. R3 is a weak signal (here in Norwich and Ramsgate anyway). Stunning s.q. from my 01, currently being serviced.
 
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/ I was worried about putting a galaxie on the roof which is the size of a double bed , put mine on high pole on garage some years ago and it's done good service
 
The Magnum Dynalab has a 3rd party signal amplifier added on to boost the added signal strength by more than your suggested 15db
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
Personally, I'd choose a simple standard FM antenna of the kind the BBC recommended when they regarded FM as king. My own view and that of some antenna riggers I've known in the past is that the highly fancified and more expensive types are largely money for bling and don't get much more signal.

Find a local rigger and ask if they will fit a basic 3 or 4 element Yagi. If they suggest a 'halo', walk away...

Look for someone who can install something similar to

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/VHF/VHFantenna.html

and knows how to point it in the right direction.
Click to expand...

That looks simple enough, but it is nearly 2 metres long and wide.
 
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